Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 28th, 2008

[An hon. member]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Maybe we need to take a vote on that. We've already had a lot of discussion.

All those in favour of an invitation being extended to Lieutenant-Colonel Dave Grossman?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mr. Shipley, did you have something to add?

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

No, it was about something before.

But I'm wondering why we're having a U.S. Lieutenant-Colonel come here, who is under different politics or circumstances. It might be interesting, actually, but if we're going have other countries coming in to talk to us, we may actually want to compare our programs in Canada for veterans with those in other G-7 countries, for example, to see how we actually are doing with our veterans in comparison with others.

If we're going to have somebody in from the States to talk about their veterans, why are we not having somebody in from England to talk about their veterans, or Australia, or—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Okay. I'm going to ask Mr. Shipley, because I don't think the committee would be opposed to having people in from England or Australia and/or.... At one point, we all remember, way, way, back when, we were even willing to do a trip to Australia. Remember that? Remember those good old days?

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

That was for the ombudsman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Yes, that's right, it was for the ombudsman. There you go. That was a while ago.

That being said, Mr. Shipley, maybe if you have some witnesses you think would be worthwhile bringing forward from England or Australia or—

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

No, I don't.

I'm just saying that if we're going to look at it and be talking about the programs they may have—why would he be coming if he wasn't going to—and we are talking about having somebody in from another country on the ombudsman, what were we looking at? We were looking at comparing an ombudsman in this country versus the benefits of what other ombudsmen have had in other similar countries.

What I'm suggesting is that if we're going to have somebody come in from the States to talk about their issues with their veterans, then we should be talking to other countries about their programs for their veterans. This is what I see in regard to Mr. Grossman; I'd have absolutely no concern having him come in for that. I think this might be something we should consider. If we're going to build on our program, maybe we should look at the United States, England, France, Italy, and the sorts of programs they actually supply for their veterans. I think that's where Mr. Grossman would be an excellent candidate, likely.

But I just don't see having this witness alone coming in to talk about their veterans, outside of our Canadian ones.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I take your point, Mr. Shipley, and yet, because we have a vote—

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

We've already had it. I'm just making my point, because I think it's wrong.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

It happens sometimes around here.

Now we'll go to Mr. Stoffer, and Mr. Perron is on deck.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I've been advised by the clerk that I need to serve a verbal notice of motion for the trip to Cyprus.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

You're giving us a heads-up. Heads-up given and noted.

Monsieur Perron.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I won't speak, I simply wanted to respond to Bev, but given that we have already voted on it, nothing will change.

From what I understood, Mr. Grossman is not a government employee but simply a former member of the military. He's also the author of a book. He has no relationship with the American military system or with war veterans, if I correctly understood what the Shearwater people told us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I thought we were getting close to done.

Mr. St. Denis.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Are we at future business? Could I mention future business?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Yes, I think this is future business.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

There was a list we made at one point in time of the various suggestions by members, not ranked by any order of merit or alphabetically, only ranked by, I think, their arrival time. I think Alex still has that list. I would ask that at any time we have a meeting where future business is planned, we just be given a copy of that list in its current state to act as a prompt and reminder of those things, sort of like a running inventory of members' ideas on future business, so that I can be reminded of what David brought up maybe six months ago. Maybe six months ago I thought one way about it and maybe now I think differently. So if that's not asking too much of the clerk, I would like to see that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

If the clerk has it, he can probably generate it for you. My sense of where we're at is that we're continuing our veterans health care review. This budgetary estimates issue is going to kind of intercede, and then we need to take these couple of trips and finish that up. Then we'll go on to something new, in a sense.

That's my sense. I know where you're coming from.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Future is future, whether it's the next two months or two years. We won't always be in minorities, hopefully. We hope to do something about it.

So it's just as a prompt. As one of my colleagues said, we're getting older and we don't always remember the things that were on these lists. You're a young guy, but it's to help us older members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I'm getting older by the day, sir.

Now I'm going to Mr. Cannan.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was sitting here and listening with great interest, and I think some really good insight, and I too regret that I was unable to go on the trip.

Specifically to the witnesses, I met with a lady who lives in the Okanagan who works for Veterans Affairs as an occupational therapist, and she has some really good insight. Her husband is a member of the military, and she has been working in the whole military field for several years. I'd like to echo that she might one day become a witness at the defence committee or here.

But I'd like to reinforce my colleague Mr. Shipley's idea about looking at our standing compared to others in the G-7, in terms of respect for veterans and how they're being treated. I think it's a good work project for this committee. Maybe we can all take a look to see where we can learn from others. If we're bringing in other people, we've brought in expertise from Canada, and we can look to others from other countries and learn from each other. We don't have to reinvent the wheel but just pick up the pieces where we are, and it's good to use that as a benchmark as well.

We don't have a steering committee here. I believe we just have the committee of the whole.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Sir, that's just extra meetings, and nobody wants those.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

So for us as a committee, I'd like to put that down. I don't know if you need a formal motion or if I have consensus, but I'd like to see that as part of our work plan.