Veterans Affairs Committee on March 13th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I see it being of great value.

Well, that takes up my time, and I'm 30 seconds short. Isn't that impressive? Don't I set an example?

Now we go back to the Liberal Party of Canada, with Mr. St. Denis, for five minutes.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here. It's extremely helpful. We're trying to get our heads around not only the issues facing veterans generally but also--and I think this is of some concern, at least to me--the fact that our veterans are spread out among so many different organizations. I know there's some sort of association of associations, but in the long term, the more they can work together, the better it will be, I think.

I'd like to focus a little bit on the issue of health services in terms of quality of life for our veterans. You mentioned literacy as an issue for aboriginal veterans.

My friend Roger Valley was explaining that a lot of veterans--I hope I have this right, Roger--who entered the service learned English. They were away from their homes for a period of time, went back into their communities, on the reserve or otherwise, and in many cases they lost contact with their traditional language. Maybe they could communicate in some way, but then, when it came to English, they lost the ability to speak it. They could understand English but they couldn't speak it, because there was nobody around who spoke English in some of those communities.

Do you have a sense, even anecdotally, of what percentage of aboriginal veterans--status, non-status, Métis, Inuit--just aren't accessing programs, VIP included, because of the language barrier?

[Claude Petit]

When this organization first started, we did a survey, but the majority of the veterans are gone now. They were mainly Second World War. There are hardly any Inuit, although there may be a few. We have one in our organization here.

As to a percentage, I couldn't put a finger on it. What would you like to know about it?

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

I'm just wondering, when it comes to the aboriginal veterans population generally, to what extent literacy is a barrier that makes them too shy or too reluctant to even try to access programs. Or do they generally try to get some help?

[Claude Petit]

Oh, you'd never get an answer on that. Even when you do an interview with them, they won't tell you what education they have. The elderly people will tell you that they don't have any. They'll still sign a cheque with an X. That's how bad it is. People don't realize it.

So they won't admit it. They're ashamed.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Then I suppose it might be a reasonable assumption that literacy is some barrier for a significant percentage.

[Claude Petit]

For a lot, yes.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

You mentioned that you had asked Veterans Affairs if you could have the names and phone numbers, and addresses I suppose, of the Korea veterans?

[Claude Petit]

No, all the veterans.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

So all the veterans in Saskatchewan?

[Claude Petit]

In the Saskatoon area. Veterans Affairs runs in districts, so they come into that office. When I was president of the Korean veterans, I had one of our liaison officers in our organization go and see if we could get a phone and an office, and we'd do the calling.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Just to follow on that point, from one point of view I can understand an office not wanting to hand out--without permission, certainly--somebody's name and phone number because of privacy concerns. Do you think it would make sense for somebody to...?

If the department were willing to ask a veteran if they minded the department giving their name and number to NAVA or to the Legion, perhaps we could turn the onus back to the veteran to give permission to be contacted. I don't think anybody's asked that big question. I know that my friend Mr. Valley, from Kenora, has asked often, because as members of Parliament we don't know who the veterans are--other than through the Legion and so on. But what if veterans were willing to give permission?

I wonder if I could get a comment on that, Mr. Chair.

[Claude Petit]

I'll comment on it.

We have an office; our meetings are held right in the Legion. Every Legion across Canada has a service officer. The only way they can track their veterans is through membership. And that's the way we track ours.

I don't think the Department of Veterans Affairs is going to give you names.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you, Mr. St. Denis.

We now go to the Conservative Party of Canada, and Mr. Shipley, for five minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Petit, for coming out, and also certainly for all you're doing now. Of course you were active in the Canadian Forces, but you are now also helping veterans and helping young people as well, guiding them through their lives.

A group has started up in one of the first nations around me, and it's actually very good; it's just what you're saying. It's encouraging a number of young people and giving them discipline and purpose. It's keeping them away from the gangs and giving them a focus on what they can do with their lives.

This is about health care, so I want to go back to what you were talking about in terms of communication. We have continually heard the same thing with regard to veterans: how do we get people to ask for help when it comes to health care services, and how do we make those services available in terms of them knowing and understanding that it's there?

And you're absolutely right, in some cases it's literacy, in some cases it's pride. They don't want to admit that they have a health issue or that they need help to stay in their homes. We all agree on how important it is to stay in your home as long as you can, and certainly within your community as long as you can.

My understanding is that Veterans Affairs also has an aboriginal outreach officer. Do you know about that?

[Claude Petit]

Yes. We tried to approach him for some funds. There you have to jump through hoops again.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Well, it may not always be about funds. My understanding is that they're available to help family members in terms of understanding the programs, what the services are, what the benefits might be. I'm wondering if you have reached out to those people in the communities to ask for advice.

As well, you mentioned that you went to the ombudsman. You've had a meeting with our new ombudsman, and I'm glad to hear that. Can you see where that position will be helpful in terms of some of the concerns you've raised?

[Claude Petit]

Yes, it will help. He's still putting the structure together on how he's going to approach it, how he's going to approach government.

But what was your first question again?

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

The first part was about the aboriginal outreach officer. Their mandate is not about funding; it's about trying to help raise awareness of programs and services and benefits.

[Claude Petit]

Yes, I know. I said that because we're not invited to those things. When they're putting things like that together for aboriginal people, I wish we'd be invited to participate. There are only...different people that are invited to these things.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

But my understanding, through Veterans Affairs, is that this individual--or individuals--can be contacted to be used as a communications person to work with you or other veterans and help in terms of programs or benefits.

[Claude Petit]

Certainly, but we don't even know about the program.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I think that's what they do, though.

[Claude Petit]

Well, they don't communicate with us to tell us what the program's about.