Veterans Affairs Committee on May 6th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Colleagues, I call the meeting to order. This is the 12th meeting of our study on the new Veterans Charter.

Our witnesses today are Ken Miller, director of...

Go ahead, Mr. Kerr.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, I wonder if I could quickly run through a couple of items to get them on the record.

There are two things we talked about before. One is moving on with the review of the issue of disability pensions. We've talked about it and gone around it; I'd like to urge us to move on and take a look at it. It's an issue that's been raised by many organizations. I talked to Madam Sgro about it, and I know others have talked about it. I'd like to urge us to get that on the agenda as soon as we can, wherever it fits. I think it's important.

The other thing is to move Bill C-473 along through the process as quickly as possible. This is the issue of how we deal with medals, how we look after medals, and so on. I know we have to report back.

If everybody's in agreement, I'd like to see those items move forward without interfering with the normal agenda.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Kerr.

I should tell you that it's parliamentary practice for bills referred to the committee to take precedence over business, so when we get into that debate, that's the practice.

I'm going to recognize Madam Sgro and then Mr. Vincent.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

On that issue as well, some previous witnesses sent us a letter that had to do with the Agent Orange issue. You will have received the letter, I suspect. It asks when they are going to have an opportunity to come back to the committee. It was on our work plan, so at some point we need to discuss it. There are only so many weeks left.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That's correct.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

I think they deserve an answer to their correspondence. If we're not going to be able to fit them in over the next four weeks or so...

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Yes, they're not on the work plan. In fact, our work plan for this new Veterans Charter study goes right to the end of May. The targeted date for the adoption of the draft report is June 3.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

The issue was on when we reconvened our meeting at the beginning. It was one of several issues over and above the charter.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I apologize. Yes, you're correct. Yes, it's June 8. Forgive me.

Go ahead, Mr. Vincent.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Last week, we talked about the possibility of hearing from Ms. Matteau in one of our upcoming meetings on the New Veterans Charter and its potential negative effects. I would like to know where we have slotted her into our schedule for next week.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Vincent. In fact, I was going to address that today. Since you've raised it, we will do it now.

We're looking to bring Madame Matteau, as well as Monsieur Leduc, on May 11. They were suggested by Mr. Oliphant. We'd have three witnesses for two hours.

Is that agreeable to you, Mr. Vincent?

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Okay, then I'll ask the clerk to try to make that arrangement for that time. They're all germane to the same issue.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I would like to bring up a second point. When I first joined the committee, we talked about suicide in the Canadian army. We said that one of the first studies we would do, after producing the report on the New Veterans Charter, would be on suicide. Not just on suicide by veterans, even though there is a high rate of that, but on suicide in the Canadian Forces in general.

I would like to know where we were thinking of putting that study into our schedule when we come back in September.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

My suggestion is that it be even before September. When we finish this study and do our report and recommendations, we would be doing a business meeting at that time and then redrafting our priorities. A number of things have been mentioned here today. We'll make sure that we'll have that already done going forward.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

So when we come back in September, the steering committee will meet to decide the topics for the upcoming meetings. Is that it?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

As I mentioned before, Mr. Vincent, I'm always at the disposal of the committee and the majority of those who vote, whichever way they like, in terms of how we plan our business.

Go ahead, Mr. Kerr.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, I wasn't trying to interject anything ahead of those items, but I know we've given an undertaking that we'd deal with disability pension and the area of income. I just want to make sure that those items are there when we have our business meeting.

On the other issue, on the bill regarding medals, we have to report on that. I want to make sure that somehow it's looked after so that in the fall it's reported back as well. That's all I was trying to do this morning.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I think that's a good point. For everybody there are, of course, principal priorities, and that's why I mentioned the parliamentary practice for dealing with legislation. There are things we have time constraints on that are the parliamentary practice as well, but we will make a decision collectively as a committee, and I'll follow whatever your decisions are regarding this when we finish the study and go to our business meeting.

Is that all for business, then?

I will attempt to make sure that I can fully introduce the witnesses. They are Ken Miller, director of program policy; Anne-Marie Pellerin, director of disability programs and income support; and Debbie Gallant, director of benefit operations.

Do all three of you have opening remarks?

[Ken Miller, Director, Program Policy Directorate, Department of Veterans Affairs]

No, I am the only one, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Miller, I think you're well aware of how we work here, so you can go ahead and proceed with your opening remarks. Then we'll go to the regular rotation for questions.

[Ken Miller]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and committee members.

I have an opening statement of about ten minutes or so.

Thank you very much for welcoming me and my colleagues here this morning.

We're responsible for different areas related to the new Veterans Charter. Hopefully we can collectively address all of the questions you may have.

Mr. Chair, it is a great pleasure for us to be here today.

We're pleased to have the opportunity to provide you with more information and clarification with respect to the suite of programs of the new Veterans Charter. We have tabled an information deck that will provide an additional level of detail.

While we're here today to speak specifically about the disability and income support programs, it's important to recognize that these programs work in concert with all the benefits under the new Veterans Charter. It is through the comprehensive nature of the suite of programs that we're able to respond to the needs of our modern-day veterans and their families.

Next week you'll hear from our colleagues on rehabilitation, the career transition program, and mental health services. They also will table additional information decks and offer to walk you through some client case scenarios. Although they are not intended to be a complete representation of all our client cases, they do help to illustrate how the programs of the new Veterans Charter can and do make positive changes in the lives of modern-day veterans and their families.

When we speak of the new Veterans Charter, we must first consider what led to its development. Prior to the new Veterans Charter, Veterans Affairs could only offer disability pensions. Because it acted as a gateway, if someone was eligible for a disability pension, only then could we provide other supports, such as health care and the veterans independence program, and then only in relation to that pension condition.

This gateway delayed treatment and often resulted in lost opportunity for successful rehabilitation and integration, and I do want to stress that point: it's not delayed opportunity, but actually lost opportunity. That's a very important point.

As well, for those who couldn't work, the disability pension did not provide a sufficient income stream to compensate for earnings lost. This caused some clients to focus more on their disability, since under the previous entitlement-based approach, the only way to get more support was to demonstrate increasing levels of disability. This resulted in poor transitioning and needs not being met. This was not our determination alone; this was what Canadian Forces members and veterans, as well as key stakeholders, were telling us.

The new Veterans Charter provides authority to offer a broader range of benefits that focus on re-establishment for today's generation of veterans and their families. The design of the new Veterans Charter is based on modern principles of disability management that stress concepts, including early intervention, a focus on wellness, and support through comprehensive programs of rehabilitation.

As a needs-based program, the new Veterans Charter provides the right level of support in relation to the level of need at the point in time when the need exists. This means that those with the greatest need get the greatest support. While those with less need may get less, they also have access to programs specifically targeted to meet their needs.

The specific features of the new Veterans Charter include, as I'm sure you're aware, a comprehensive rehabilitation program that includes medical, psychological, social, and vocational rehabilitation and a dual approach to financial compensation, and I do want to stress that aspect. The first part of it is a disability lump-sum award for pain and suffering that pays up to $276,000, and supplementary disability awards may also be paid if the condition worsens over time. The second part of that dual award approach to compensation is a monthly earnings loss benefit that is intended to replace lost income at 75% of pre-release salary while in rehabilitation or until age 65 if seriously disabled and unable to work. As well, the earnings loss benefit is indexed over time, based on a CPI indexing, and capped at 2%.

As well, the charter provides the Canadian Forces income support program. It's a financial safety net to bridge the gap for those who have successfully completed the rehabilitation program and are medically, psychologically, and vocationally able to work, but have not yet been able to find employment. The rates are at $1,273 per month for a single veteran and at $1,937 per month for a married veteran. These amounts are not taxable. I want to stress that this program is for individuals who are able and ready to work, but simply have not engaged, so this is not the earnings loss program. This is a social safety net.

Additionally, there is a supplementary retirement benefit that is payable at age 65, recognizing lost opportunity to contribute to retirement savings. This provides 2% of all the earnings loss paid for those who have been totally and permanently incapacitated.

A permanent impairment allowance that provides a monthly benefit payable for life in recognition of lost opportunity recognizes the effects that a permanent and severe impairment related to military service has on employment potential and career advancement. It pays at three grade levels that range from $536 to $1,609 and it pays on a monthly basis for life. That is for life, just to stress that point.

As well, there are expanded mental health services and supports; family support benefits; a death benefit for survivors, which is critically important, of $276,000; monthly earnings loss benefits for survivors...

Do you want me to speak more slowly?

My apologies, sir. I will speak a little slower.

There is a death benefit for survivors of $276,000, plus monthly earnings, for survivors of service-related death. That's an important point: the earnings loss that would have been paid to the veteran now pays as well to the survivor.

There are career transition services, expanded access to the public service health care plan, financial counselling, and all-important VAC case managers who coordinate services so that the services are best tailored to the individual needs of releasing Canadian Forces members and their families.

It is also of note, Mr. Chair, that since implementation of the new Veterans Charter, Veterans Affairs and DND have worked to establish integrated personal support centres that co-locate VAC client service staff with Canadian Forces staff to support CF members in their recovery, rehabilitation, and reintegration.

The rehabilitation program is the cornerstone of the new Veterans Charter. If offers comprehensive rehabilitation services to a broader eligibility group than what was available before. While SISIP vocational, rehabilitation, and income replacement programs are aimed primarily at medically releasing members, VAC's rehabilitation program--and by extension the earnings loss program and other financial benefits--is not available only to CF members who are medically releasing from the forces; it also includes CF members who have not medically released but who have a service-related physical or mental health problem that at any time poses a barrier to making or maintaining successful transition to civilian life. This includes, for example, veterans who are diagnosed with service-related post traumatic stress disorder years after leaving the military.

This is an extremely important feature of the new Veterans Charter. The door never closes. The support is available at the point in time in the future when it's needed again. That is a very important guarantee of security for CF veterans.

There are also the spouses or common-law partners of those CF veterans who qualify for rehabilitation but who are unable to participate in vocational rehabilitation due to their disability and, finally, the survivors of CF veterans whose death is related to service. We can provide benefits under the NVC to all of these additional categories of recipients; benefits could not have been provided to them under the previous SISIP regime.

The new Veterans Charter also provides services to those who do not have either a disability or a barrier to re-establishment. All who honourably release have access to career transition services that can help them prepare for and find civilian employment; SISIP vocational rehabilitation is primarily intended for medically released CF members.

The new charter has created many more options to meet the needs of families. Veterans Canada has more options than ever. These options include professional and rehabilitation services that can be provided to the spouses of Canadian Forces veterans who are unable to work. Child care support can also be provided if the veteran is in rehabilitation. Family members can also have access to counselling services.

As well, there is expanded family access to the public service health care plan. Consistent with previously existing legislation, educational support is available for the children of deceased veterans who were severely disabled or whose death is related to service. In cases of service-related death, death benefits to survivors include the lump-sum death benefit of $276,000 as well as the monthly earnings loss benefit that would have been paid to the veteran. This pay is irrespective of the income or the future income of the surviving partner.

Another important component of the new Veterans Charter is the mental health services, particularly given that over the past five years the number of clients receiving disability benefits related to psychiatric conditions has increased significantly. You'll hear more about mental health services from our colleagues next week.

The design of the new Veterans Charter ensures that the level of support is proportional to the level of need. It's about providing a level of support at the point in time when the support is needed. It is not about the total amount of money paid over a veteran's lifetime; it is about providing the support and the assistance required when it is required.

In order to implement the programs of the new Veterans Charter, the government invested an additional $740 million over the first five years to fund the incremental costs over and above expenditures under the old pension program. To date the new Veterans Charter expenditures are $826 million. If the new Veterans Charter is successful over the long term, more veterans will have had a successful transition to civilian life. If that is achieved, costs could eventually be less. However, if that occurs, it will be because more veterans have successfully made it to civilian life, and that, of course, is the main goal of the program.

I thank you for the opportunity to provide you with this update.

We will be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Mr. Miller.

We'll go to the first round of questioning.

You have seven minutes, Madam Sgro.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you very much for being here and thank you for the work you're doing on behalf of the many veterans in our country.

I continue to have great concerns about this lump-sum payment issue. I can understand in theory why people would have thought it was a good thing, but what I've been hearing clearly from the majority of people is that it is not a success. Is there a reason you have not released any of the analysis that has been done on the lump-sum payment program?

[Ken Miller]

As members may be aware, the department is presently undertaking a formal evaluation of the new Veterans Charter, including specifically a look at the lump sum and a determination of the extent to which the lump sum is meeting the objectives of the program and the objectives the Government of Canada has for this program.

I certainly appreciate the concern you've expressed, and we've heard it from others. We've heard it expressed in various advisory forums in reports that have been provided to the department. We take that concern very seriously.

We feel it's important to focus on the scope of the problem, to the extent that there is a problem. Certainly there may be some who would use the lump-sum benefit in a way that one might not consider the most appropriate; however, it's also important to point out that for many individuals, the lump-sum payment does result in the outcomes that were intended. It does provide for early opportunities, and many individuals--and we have many solid case examples--use that lump sum to do very good things to help establish themselves and their family in civilian life.

We appreciate the concern. We're very aware of the concern, and our department feels that it's something we must look at and ensure it is addressed to the extent that there may be a problem.