Veterans Affairs Committee on April 1st, 2010

[Supt Rich Boughen]

That's for the top level.

[C/Supt Alain Tousignant]

Oh, sorry. Yes, that's the top level.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That's top level?

[C/Supt Alain Tousignant]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

We had some people over here reconsidering their careers.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Now we'll move on to Mr. Stoffer for five minutes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I couldn't help but notice that I'm wearing the RCMP tartan tie today--

[C/Supt Alain Tousignant]

I noticed.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

--which is just kind of ironic.

As well, on behalf of our committee, as I did before, I want to offer our condolences on the loss of your two heroes who were in Haiti serving our country.

[C/Supt Alain Tousignant]

Thank you.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

As well, Mr. Chairman, I had the privilege of hearing these gentlemen, along with others, at the health committee a couple of weeks back, and I highly recommend that we get that testimony from the committee Hansard for all of us. It was really quite moving. It was pretty good.

Gentlemen, I have a couple of things. Just to simplify it, is it still the status quo that the RCMP in general do not wish to be part of the new veterans charter and keep their own separate identity in that particular regard? Am I correct in saying that?

[C/Supt Alain Tousignant]

In all of the work that we did, the analysis, it was decided that we would stay and not take part in the new veterans charter.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay, very good.

Now, as you know, sir, a fair number of us have been getting e-mails from various RCMP officers who are retired and are looking for the veterans independence program, or VIP. It's quite helpful for veterans and their spouses, especially widows and widowers; I think not enough get it, but that's a debatable point.

The reality is that a lot of RCMP officers are looking for this. I'm just wondering if you have had those conversations at your level, and if indeed it may be something we see, or if those conversations are happening now.

[C/Supt Alain Tousignant]

There are ongoing discussions and there's work involving the RCMP and Veterans Affairs Canada to examine the benefits provided to the members. Because of the ongoing discussions and the work being done on that topic, I'm not at liberty to expand on this, but there is work taking place.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

I know that I've mentioned this to you once before, but I just want to give you the scenario of what we've heard in our committee about Roddie O'Handley, an RCMP veteran who was disabled out of the RCMP. He received 64% of his annuity. Because he is entitled to 75%, Great-West Life topped it up by 11% for two years. At the end of those two years, Great-West Life stopped their payment and he was told that he had to apply for Canada Pension Plan disability benefits, which he did and he received.

But he got it in a lump sum, because it's retroactive to the day he left the RCMP. The first call he got after he got the cheque was from the RCMP annuity branch, which was saying that he owed them over $11,000 because of the benefit reduction. The second call he got was from Great-West Life, which said, “That 11% top-up? You owe us back all that money.” It cost him a couple of thousand more than he actually received from CPP. For being disabled out of the RCMP, he actually lost money.

Then, what he didn't realize—it was probably somewhere in a book he received, but he didn't read it—was that when he turns 65, the Canada Pension Plan disability stops, and he goes on a lower CPP amount, which is deducted from his annuity. So he loses money once again.

I find that very frustrating on his behalf. I know it's not your issue to deal with. I just wanted to point that out: this is an anomaly that happens to disabled members of the RCMP as well as the military. Can you give us any advice on how we can correct that? Because my belief is that when you're disabled, that's when you need that higher income, to pay for additional medicines and treatment you may have, and other things that others who normally retire wouldn't have to face. I just point that out to you because it is a problem.

I just got another one like that from Victoria today. It's the exact same thing. It is frustrating for them. I'm just wondering if you could comment. If you can't, I appreciate that. I just want to let you know about this.

[C/Supt Alain Tousignant]

I appreciate hearing about these cases. I think they may warrant more discussion.

But as far as this case goes, it's very hard to comment on it based on just the information you provided. As you know, these types of situations are very complex when dealing with the pension and dealing with what they're getting for disability, especially with the CPP and its reduction. They're very complex issues to address. It would be unfair for me to even try to address the situation without having the whole situation in front of me.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I appreciate that.

I want to thank both of you for your service as well.

[C/Supt Alain Tousignant]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

You have another minute, Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Oh, okay. Gee, this is rare.

Very quickly, one of the things the new veterans charter does, which I think is very good, is focus on the family. They work through the military family resource centres, etc.

I'm asking this question, and I don't know if you can answer it. Does the RCMP have something like RCMP family centres across the country, like the military does? The veterans charter really focuses on the family, the children, educational opportunities, etc. Would that not be something the RCMP and their members would want to look at in a favourable sense as well?

[Supt Rich Boughen]

We have the member employee assistance program, which is not just for the members, but also for the families. It's not a counselling service, but it is a referral service through which we can send people to different areas they need. We don't have a family counselling centre as such, which would be a great idea.

As well, our world is very different from the military's. The military is fortunate enough to have certain bases throughout Canada. They have actual physical structures where they can place something, which is great, so those become hubs. For us, we have, I believe, over 800 detachments throughout Canada. Logistically, it would be very tough. We realize that it is an issue for families to be better supported, but we aren't there yet.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll move on to Mr. Kerr for seven minutes.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome. We're very pleased to have you here today.

You can tell that we're searching for things we can ask on how we use the charter, and I do believe it was accidental that Peter had that tie on today--