Evidence of meeting #62 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was told.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Lacoste, for being here this morning.
I would like to quickly go back over the sequence of certain events and your background. So I will ask a lot of questions. If you can answer as briefly as possible, I would appreciate it very much.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
When you were enrolled and during your first few years of service, you were in excellent physical condition, is that correct?
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
You were an athlete. You left the armed forces with a devastating combination of physical and psychological injuries. Were you offered support?
9:40 a.m.
NDP
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
When you turned to Veterans Affairs Canada, did you receive the help you expected? I would like you to tell me a little bit about the steps you took. How many telephone calls did you make to Veterans Affairs Canada? How many emails did you send? Tell us about everything you did. I will use your story to learn a little more about how this happened, exactly.
9:40 a.m.
As an Individual
It's very simple.
First, when you are a member of the Canadian Airborne Regiment, you are proud, you're a tough guy, you don't have the right to complain. One day, after a jump, I had three scolioses in the spine. I remained completely paralyzed on the landing strip. When I arrived at the office of Dr. Deslandes of the 1st Battalion with a seized back, he told me that he was allowed up to 10 back problems a month and that I was the eleventh. Therefore, I would have to come back the next month. I am still fighting with the Department of Veterans Affairs to have my back problems recognized because the unit doctor always refused to see me. I was told to take some painkillers and shut my mouth. That's the care I got. I'm sorry, but those are the words that were used.
I had other problems after that, like PTSD. One morning, I woke up completely naked in my yard. I was in a sweat and had a hunting knife. I was looking for prey to kill. I was afraid of myself. I went to the military base and said that this was really not right and that I needed help. I was told that someone would call me back in six to eight months and that I could see a social worker. I said that that didn't work and that I couldn't wait six to eight months.
I then went to the Veterans Affairs Canada office. I brought with me my biggest and strongest friend, and I told him that he had to stop me from doing things I wouldn't normally do because I wasn't my usual self. I asked the employee to see a psychologist because it was urgent. I was told to stay where I was and to fill out some forms. I completely cracked. I took my wallet out of my jacket. I took the doctor's card out of my wallet and said that I was not a doctor but a soldier. I said that they'd need to get the answers from the doctor, not me. I was in a crisis state.
I went home and when I got there, the police were waiting for me. The two Veterans Affairs Canada employees had complained about me, saying that I had made death threats. I asked the police officers how I had threatened them. One employee said that I had a knife and the other said I had a gun. I laughed and said, "Mister, I'm trained in hand-to-hand combat; I don't need a weapon."
After that, for each pension request, I was told to prove that it was due to military service. I could not get papers. As for all my related to uranium poisoning-related health problems, they said that they did not recognize that kind of poisoning.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
I know that you had to wait 10 or 11 years to get certain compensations. Did submitting applications to Veterans Affairs Canada become a part-time job?
9:40 a.m.
As an Individual
When a person is exhausted, it's a full-time job. It creates an enormous amount of despair. As soon as you have a bit of energy, you are trying to survive. People in the department see us as an undesirable expense. I got called "BS in uniform". But what we want is care. When we come back sick, like any human being, we are extremely unstable, and we want care. However, before being able to get that care, there are administrative steps that need to be taken. When we step into the office we are, by default, profiteers who want a bigger pension.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
Faced with this lack of confidence you mentioned, you have practically received no real support. In fact, it took time to get any care.
Lastly, the only person who gave you some kind of answer to explain your physical condition was Dr. June Irwin. She ran tests using a sample of your hair that showed a concentration of uranium that was 25 times higher. Is a doctor able to determine another reason that could explain your health problems?
I'm trying to show how much help you received. In fact, veterans seem to have difficulty getting tests or tools to prove what it is they are suffering from. However, from the administrative side of things, they want diagnoses and proof. Did anyone try to help you come to those conclusions?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
There was no help from the Department of Veterans Affairs. There's always a grey area between the real needs and our problem.
When you have a so-called rare disorder, in other words, unknown medical problems, such as uranium poisoning, the administrative machine freezes right away. People say that since a connection cannot be made between the service and the medical problem, it's no, and we have to manage on our own. The door is shut.
In addition, for clients registered in the rehabilitation program, the Department of Veterans Affairs regulations stipulate that if the department is able to give clients care that can help their condition, the department must provide it, even if it is not linked to service. Even though I put that on the table, the answer was no. I went to Nova Scotia for health care, and I came back with much better results. In fact, my health improved by 50%. Even there, I was told that a connection could not be made between service and my care, so I was told no.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer
The time is up, Madame.
Now we move on to Mr. Lobb, please, for five minutes.
March 7th, 2013 / 9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Lacoste, welcome to the committee.
I'm just trying to go through the chronology again in my head. You are saying, are you, that you served over in Bosnia in 1995 and 1996?
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
At that time, I think you said in your comments at the beginning to the committee, you felt as though your troop was attacked or your tank was hit. Is that the idea?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
No. I in no way said that the troops were attacked and that the tank was touched. This is what I said. In 1995, before we arrived, the Americans had conducted an air raid with A-10 aircraft. It's documented and acknowledged. You can see it in the UN report I showed you.
Once there has been an explosion, the uranium has a half-life, which is 60,000 years. Therefore, the area remains contaminated for 60,000 years. I went through there a few months later. The guys said that it was right there that the A-10 air raid had taken place. We did not know that the area was contaminated. So we climbed up on the tanks and had our picture taken on the tanks.
No, I was not there during the air raid and, no, I was not involved in the fire fight that took place.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
From your perspective, then, your possible contamination could come from that or it could come from the exposure you mentioned having had while driving, from the friction from the plates. Is that what you said in your testimony?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
I have no tool that measures it. So I cannot comment on something I'm not sure about. I don't know. I know that I joined the Canadian Forces when I was 19 and that I was in excellent shape. When I left the Canadian Forces, I had uranium poisoning and was in disastrous condition. How, when and where? I have no tool to specify that.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Are you still in contact with any of your colleagues you served with at the same period of time? Are they experiencing any of these effects as well?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
Absolutely. There was one I was very close to. He is in the process of getting out of the Canadian Forces for medical reasons. All operational military members are afraid of the system. They are afraid that the same thing that happened to me will happen to them if they say that they have uranium poisoning. So they do exactly what they learned in the army: shut up and don't say a damn word.
As for the other veterans with uranium poisoning, I am pleased to see that some of them are appearing before this committee. Unfortunately, the woman who was to appear this morning was too tired to come. If you want a long list of names of people with uranium poisoning, I strongly suggest you contact Dr. June Irwin. That's what I clearly recommended to the committee. She tested a huge number of Canadian serving members and veterans. Unfortunately, a good number of them have uranium poisoning, according to the results.