Evidence of meeting #64 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was study.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
You indicated that separate from the authorities cited in the study by the scientific advisory committee, numerous other experts hold a contrary view. We have been told otherwise.
Can you refer this committee to two or three of the most authoritative experts who hold a contrary view?
10:15 a.m.
As an Individual
I can give you one right now. Dr. Chris Busby testified before the Italian Parliament and in Britain as well with regard to the Stuart Dyson case. You will see his name quite a bit on the Internet if you Google. He has done exceedingly well in his research, and his CV is pages and pages long. He is on many committees.
The other one is Dr. Asaf Durakovic. He won a Nobel Prize for his study of depleted uranium. He also is published in the Croatian Medical Journal as well as many other periodicals.
Those are two I can give you off the top of my head who we correspond with on a fairly regular basis.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you.
Did you have an opportunity to present to the scientific advisory committee?
10:15 a.m.
As an Individual
I did. We are one of the only two veterans who did, mainly because they asked us about our database.
My presentation to them was very similar to what you received here today, including the report the French did that showed depleted uranium and uranium are different, and that you are six and a half more times likely to develop a cancer as a human from depleted uranium than you are from uranium.
They have that. It's in the references, but nowhere in the report.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
10:15 a.m.
As an Individual
That's correct. We provided them with the information with regard to the Phalanx firing. They added the words “in battle”. No, we didn't fire it in battle, but did we fire it? Absolutely. We fired it on workups. Were the members cleaning it without any protective gear? Absolutely, because it was considered harmless.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
You provided the committee with more than 300 pages of documentation, I understand. Our good analyst is going to take some of those documents and have them translated and summarized for us.
I don't want to suggest for one minute that we don't trust the very fine judgment of our analyst, but what are the key documents of all the ones you have presented to us? If there were a handful that you were to say were the ones we must read first, what would they be?
10:15 a.m.
As an Individual
The one that provides you the most links is the DU database my wife compiled because it already has the summaries from each of the reports. It's in Excel. The link is there if you want to read the entire report. They are all dated. They are all peer reviewed. They are all from around the world. That's a really easy one to use and navigate through. You can use that one.
I know you're interested in the one on the analytical exercise conducted by the Canadian Forces on itself.
There are a number of other ones: the MSDS sheets on depleted uranium, the American study, as well as the animal studies, which no one has mentioned here.
It is unethical to inject somebody with depleted uranium, because of the risk, or have them breathe it. In 40 minutes my wife pulled up 43 animal studies with the links to it. Every one of those studies shows a negative health effect to depleted uranium.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer
Thank you, Mr. Dornan.
Thank you, Mr. Casey.
We now move on to Mr. Zimmer for five minutes, please.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Thank you for coming today. I know I can speak on behalf of my wife too. I know our wives are often a big part of our lives, and thanks for helping your husband, as mine has with my career.
I would like to start by saying that I care about veterans and servicemen. At the end of the day we want to make sure you're taken care of.
I have cousins with experience in the air force. My son is an air cadet. I see my son sitting there, and I hope good care is given to him someday.
I want to ask you some basic questions about the Scientific Advisory Committee on Veterans' Health.
Are you happy that the study of Canadian veterans was completed?
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
I'm happy that there was a study, because that didn't exist for the 10 years we did it. I'm not happy with the conclusions, because a lot of them are out of line with what is actually written in the study. I know they sent it out for peer review to three different people. But if you read very carefully, they sent out draft copies for peer review; they didn't send out a final copy. I know if my name was going on something, I'd want to see the final copy before I put my name on it. Little things like that raise red flags for me.
Am I happy with it? There are parts of it that apply, and then there are parts that are obviously cherry-picked.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Okay.
The documents you provided to us, did you provide those same documents to the scientific advisory committee?
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
They were pretty much the same documents. In fact, we actually provided them with more; they were obviously looking at this over a year and you guys are looking at it over a few days.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Sure.
Looking at the study again, are you happy with the approach of involving not just scientists but veterans and scientists in our survey?
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
It's a shame that only two veterans came forward to testify there.
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
I'm sorry, three.
A lot of it had to do with the fact that nobody knew. We found out through a veterans' advocacy website that this was being offered. It wasn't published out there, asking for veterans to come forward; it was an actual veterans' website, run by veterans, that brought it to our attention.
Could they have had a larger number of people testify? Absolutely, if we had known about it.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Okay.
Finally, what benefits are available to veterans suffering with conditions similar conditions to yours? Can you list those? I'm not a veteran myself, but for the record, what are the benefits?
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
When you're in the Canadian Forces, the Canadian Forces looks after you, and does a very good job of it. The day you leave the Canadian Forces or are released from the Canadian Forces, you are on your own. If you do not have a pensioned condition for Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs has nothing to do with you. If you're sick or not, it doesn't matter. You could be laying on a deathbed, and if you don't have what's called a “pension condition”, you get nothing. There's no care for a veteran from Veterans Affairs.
This is the only way ahead for the one-offs like myself.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Okay.
As my colleague Mr. Lizon stated, I hope you're around for another 50 years.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
I really wish you well, and thanks again for your service. We appreciate it, and continued good health.
Thank you.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer
Thank you, Mr. Zimmer.
We're going to shorten up the rest of the questions because at 10:30 we do need to go in camera to discuss committee business.
Ms. Mathyssen, for a couple of minutes, or Ms. Papillon, please.