Veterans Affairs Committee on May 7th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

We now go to Mr. O'Toole for five minutes, please.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for appearing this morning. I want to seize upon something Mr. Stoffer raised in his questions. In it is the challenge Veterans Affairs faces in addressing the service needs of modern veterans alongside our traditional veterans. I have two questions in relation to that.

First, I believe it was at estimates when the deputy minister appeared, she mentioned that increasingly VIP benefits were being accessed by friends or family members of older veterans. Some of the changes in terms of predictable payment ahead of time for those programs were the result of that. Do you have any data on how many of the older veterans actually have friends or family who help them access benefits?

[Charlotte Bastien]

I'm not sure when you mention friends and family whether you are talking about caregivers.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Yes...or caregivers.

[Charlotte Bastien]

We don't have the numbers here, but that's something we can get you information on.

[Robert Cormier]

Is your question about those who represent veterans to access services?

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Yes. Certainly in a perfect world we'd all like to have an office within a short distance from all veterans. After people leave the Canadian Forces post-war or in the modern era, they tend to go back to where they enrolled. The Internet is increasingly the main way that Canadians access services, including from Veterans Affairs. The older veteran may not be as technically savvy. It was my understanding from previous appearances from your department that a lot of caregivers or family members were helping the process, whether it's with regard to VIP or other benefits.

I'd like to get some numbers on that. I think the department is doing a very good job trying to balance points of service access for all veterans, the traditional ones who are now in their eighties who we see at the cenotaph, but also modern veterans where the app and online methods are going to be used 100% when they seek service or benefit information or access services.

[Charlotte Bastien]

We'll see what data we can get. Usually when a family member or caregiver is acting on behalf of the veteran, we need to have on file the proper authorization and paperwork to support that, but I think we can get some data. It might not be exact; it might be an indication.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Yes, and complementary to that would be how those people access, whether it's by phone or things like that. I think the traditional bricks and mortar, warm body that Mr. Stoffer talks about is probably increasingly not being relied upon.

The second question is related to mental health and PTSD or operational stress injuries.

You talked about the number of available clinicians or service providers for veterans across the country. Could you speak to how those are determined, or if there's a credential review or something like that before a service provider is selected to offer mental health services for veterans?

[Charlotte Bastien]

We can provide you with the detailed process for a provider who would want to be registered as a mental health services provider. Of course the individual's credentials, the professional certification or accreditation, are all elements that would have to be in good standing. A health professional, for example, would be registered with his or her professional association. We can send you the criteria and the process.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

When our committee travelled to the United States recently we heard from a voluntary non-profit program that asked mental health and psychiatric professionals to give some free services. They had constant information sharing on techniques, practices, that sort of stuff. Does Veterans Affairs have an ongoing dialogue with these service providers so as new clinical techniques, those sorts of things, are developed, they are pushed out to these people?

[Charlotte Bastien]

Part of the mandate of the network of the OSI clinic is the outreach to the community provider, participating in the presenting at conferences on best practices and techniques, and publishing also. Part of it is outreach, promoting some of their findings and best practices they have developed in their techniques, and also reaching out to the local community of providers to make that information available to them and providing training, if required.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

I know time flies. That ends the five-minute round. We're going to the four-minute round.

Before we do that, I want to point out that members have asked for a number of things. Please send that information. I'll remind you at the end of the meeting.

I also want to say to the committee that we've got to take about five minutes for some business. We will need about five minutes in camera at the end of the meeting once we're through with this.

We'll start the four-minute round with Ms. Mathyssen, please.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Ms. Bastien and Mr. Cormier, for being here. It's good to see you again.

I have a number of questions. I want to begin by saying I appreciate very much the good work that you do. My questions, however, relate to policies.

I know you're bound by policies, but I have some profound concerns with the policies that are currently in place. I want to go back to the issue of earnings loss. It says, “most eligible Veterans now have a minimum income of $40,000 per year” up to age 65.

The problem is that depending on their working history and the fact that OAS and GIS is simply not adequate, there will be those who have less income at a time in their lives when they need more assistance. This concerns me very much, plus the fact that the government has now changed the eligibility to 67 years of age commencing in 2023. That will have profound effects on people.

My second question has to do with the long-term care beds. I'm very concerned. I've had veterans approach me and tell me that they need a long-term care bed. There are empty beds at Parkwood and they can't get in because of this technicality about the mandate. In one case involving a 33-year veteran, doctors said very clearly that the veteran's spinal deterioration was most likely because of his service, and yet that testimony or that doctor's opinion was dismissed. There was nothing available in a nursing home in a community bed. He does have a bed, but he has to pay for it. He has to pay for it as if he never served his country. That concerns me very much.

The third question has to do with the funeral and burial services. Some years ago, the cut-off in regard to assets was $24,000. That was reduced by the Liberals. It's now just over $12,000 in terms of the cut-off for this funeral and burial service, which means that 67% of veterans will not qualify. It seems to me that $12,000 is rather a pittance when you look at the cost of things today. I just arranged for a funeral for a family member and the cost was well over $10,000. It's significant, and it's difficult. In terms of that, I'm wondering why the cut-off is so low.

The fourth question is in regard to travel costs. You indicated that for health-related travel the veteran can be reimbursed. What happens if they can't afford it in the first place? It seems to me that there could be veterans who need to travel for health care, and they can't provide the money up front.

I have many more questions, but my time is limited. The brochure in regard to hire a veteran says that many Canadian businesses have stepped forward with a commitment. A commitment is one thing. We hear all kinds of words all over the place. I'm wondering to what degree this commitment has materialized. I'm thinking particularly of the Royal Bank, which is third on the list. We know that they made an attempt to actually fire workers in order to hire temporary foreign workers in their place. Are these companies truly stepping forward? Do you have any numbers in regard to the reality of the commitment?

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

We used over four minutes on the question time, so I'm going to have to ask you to provide those in writing as best you can, please. Thank you very much.

Ms. Adams, for four minutes.

[Eve Adams, Conservative, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Perhaps I could do the same and run through a number of questions that I have. Feel free to provide our committee with those responses in writing afterwards, just so that we can go through as much content as possible.

What we're looking to do, as you may know, is compare the types of services and benefits that are provided to Canada's veterans with those provided by some of our top allies: the United States, United Kingdom, and France. Obviously, our goal is to ensure that our veterans are very well served. We certainly owe an enormous debt of gratitude to them for their sacrifice. We want to ensure that Canada continues to be, as it has been under the leadership of this Prime Minister, a world leader in providing services and benefits to our veterans.

The first question I have for you follows on Ms. Mathyssen's question. How much did Canada spend on long-term care in 2012?

The second question that I have relates to our rehabilitation program. Could you please outline what is provided through Veterans Affairs Canada's rehabilitation program, and then also, more importantly, what the success rate is of the rehabilitation program?

On a separate question, when it comes to the new Veterans Charter, and the financial benefits there, could you please briefly outline the increased support for the earnings loss benefit, the increased access to the permanent impairment allowance, and changes to the disability award payments through the new Veterans Charter? Did veterans ask for these changes and how are they beneficial?

Could you also separately highlight which aspects of Veterans Affairs Canada's benefits and services that are offered are unique to Canada? I think that might be of particular interest to us.

Could you additionally advise whether you feel it's valuable that Veterans Affairs Canada has external entities, such as the Veterans Ombudsman and the Veterans Review and Appeal Board, which provide oversight and avenues for veterans to voice their concerns?

Would you say that the services and benefits provided to Canadian veterans have been increasing and are the most comprehensive programs ever offered through Veterans Affairs Canada?

That really is the key, in a nutshell. Perhaps you might be in a position to offer some advice on that last question: would you say that the services and benefits provided to Canada's veterans have been increasing and are currently the most comprehensive programs ever offered through Veterans Affairs Canada?

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

I'm going to let you respond because you have about a minute and a half to do so, and as indicated with the previous questioner, you can send the rest in.

[Charlotte Bastien]

Regarding the long-term care expenses, we'll get you that data.

Also, regarding the numbers for the rehab, I think I mentioned earlier there are more than 40,000 veterans and their families who have participated in the rehab.

Regarding the success rate, we'll make sure that you get some data on that.

I did mention earlier that there have been some changes to the new Veterans Charter, especially to the earnings loss program, and we'll get back to you with some of the specifics.

We do have a very good, comprehensive set of programs for veterans, but I'm not in a position to say how they compare with those of other countries, unfortunately. We'll try to see, based on the data or the research we have, and we'll make available what we have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

I can tell that you're going to be sending us a lot of written material.

We finish with Madame Perreault, for four minutes.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

First of all, I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

You just repeated that you could not provide us with comparative numbers. However, it was my understanding that in 2009, a report was issued on a comparative study with the United States and Great Britain. Is it because you have not met the objectives, or just that no one knows where this report is now?

My second question has to do with Veterans Affairs Canada's points of service. There are apparently about 1,800 people located in over 60 offices. That means, for the approximately 700,000 current veterans, a ratio of about 1 to 350. When these people dial your “1-866” number, do many of them ask for a follow-up? Do some fall between the cracks? That seems like a very low ratio.

[Charlotte Bastien]

I will begin with the report. A report was indeed produced in 2009. We will make it available, if that has not already been done. I did not quote any numbers because I am not one of the authors of that report. Nonetheless, it is easily available for consultation.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

How quickly could we obtain access to it?

[Charlotte Bastien]

It is up on the website. You can access it or make a copy of it.

If I have correctly understood your question, you wanted to know the number of people who dial our toll free number to ask for follow-ups on—

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

For a follow-up on their file, to make a request or open a new file.

[Charlotte Bastien]

I do not remember the precise number of calls, but we do receive over one million per year. It is quite varied. Some are follow-ups, while others are new requests. However, we could provide you with more information.