Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 24th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Obviously, this march each year continues to strengthen the links between our country and the Netherlands. This committee's special link to the Netherlands is named Peter Stoffer, and I always look forward to his contributions when he talks about the love of the Dutch people for us.

That's why I interrupted him a minute ago. I had one ear to you and one ear to him because I wanted to know what he was sharing with Chicoine.

Now, Peter, will you share with us what you were sharing with only one of your...?

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I'd be happy to.

The distance between the place where I was born and the location of the Nijmegen march is almost 160 kilometres. It's over 180, to be honest. If you went from Nijmegen to Heerlen, in Limburg, you would have it.

I also told him that Limburg was actually liberated by the U.S.A.'s army, the Kentucky brigade. The Canadians did everything north of it. The coal mines are in southern Holland, in Limburg, and the Americans had the vehicles to do that; whereas the Canadians did all the foot work and the trudging through the mud and everything else. The Poles and the Brits were up in the northern parts.

If you went from Nijmegen to Heerlen, you'd be doing the Nijmegen march all the way down south. You're going down and over hills, though, and it would be a lot harder.

Thanks, again.

I do have a trade secret I'd like you to share with me. What's in the CamelBak? Some guys say it's Gatorade; some say it's energy water. What do you prefer in your CamelBak, Sergeant MacIntyre?

[Sgt Jamie MacIntyre]

Generally, I would have water. You don't want—

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Just water.

[Sgt Jamie MacIntyre]

Sometimes if you're doing that much marching and doing that much sweating, you can lose a lot of the salt from your body as well. You can offset that with a little bit of Gatorade at some of the rest stops. Gatorade has a lot of salt and a lot of sugar in it. But you don't want to overload yourself too much on sugar and caffeine, as well, really.

[BGen Kevin Cotten]

I have a little anecdote to share with you. Is there anybody of Danish descent here? No?

The Danish contingent actually march from Denmark—there is one ferry ride, of course—to Nijmegen ahead of the march as part of their training. I'm not sure what the distance is. I think it's even farther.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

It's 650 kilometres.

[BGen Kevin Cotten]

Is it? So those guys are bears for punishment, I think, but they really love the walking.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Are there 270 Canadian marchers?

[BGen Kevin Cotten]

No, on average, the number of marchers would be about 160 to 170, depending on the number of teams. They have the support staff as well, and the band happened to be there that year, which brought our numbers up. I would say that it's normally about 170 marchers, and 90% of them would be first-time marchers. That's one of our basic rules. We want to see at least the team captain and the second-in-command be experienced marchers who have been there before and know the training, but the rest of the team should all be novices so that as many people as possible from the Canadian Forces can participate over time.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

So there are 170 marchers from Canada. How many marchers are there altogether?

[BGen Kevin Cotten]

Well, from the military there are about 5,000. We're one of the smaller contingents, but the Dutch are there, obviously, in large numbers.

The Brits actually bring their cadets over from the youth cadet program. They'll have several hundred of them and they're accommodated in the camp with us. To me that's a bit of a recipe for disaster. You have young men and women with not enough supervision. There is access to alcohol. I think we had a cadet team before, but I don't think it has been repeated. It was not a good experience.

The French are there. Again, there are over 50 countries. We've seen China, Israel, and Australia there.

The Americans are there in large numbers, but they don't train together as teams. They come together as individuals so you can see that the lack of discipline and the approach to training isn't there. We'll walk by them and it's like the retreat from Moscow. They're on the sides of the road, feet up, and we're trying to encourage them to get up and come with us because they're not going to make it otherwise. It's rather embarrassing, and the U.S. ambassador was quite taken by that fact as he saw them along the sides of the road.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

He knew what team to march with.

[BGen Kevin Cotten]

He did. That's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Mr. Lizon.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

General, there are two questions I have, maybe for both of you, on commemoration ceremonies. Of course, there is Vimy Ridge and Groesbeek. During the last march, and you were not there, General Pelletier was the commander, and something happened.

I don't know if it was for the first time because of the 100th anniversary of World War I. We were in Belgium, and in Nijmegen of course. We were also at a few cemeteries and we had a joint commemoration at German cemeteries with the Germans.

Can you maybe share your views on it? I will tell you that, personally, I had very mixed feelings. On the other side, one of the teams that marches, as a military team, is a German team.

Can you share some of your views on that idea?

[BGen Kevin Cotten]

Certainly. I've been on battlefield tours before where we've had Canadian Forces members from the staff college over in Europe doing a battlefield tour. During that tour, we actually had a Canadian tank commander and a German tank commander, who we believe may have faced off on the same battlefield. They both talked about their experiences there. So, we know....

Those guys were wartime veterans who had fought on opposite sides. To me, if they can come together in that kind of a scenario and shake hands and say, “Hey, I remember fighting against you, but guess what? Today we are allies. We are at peace with each other.” I think it's a great thing that we can celebrate with the other contingents.

I don't like the Germans for one reason. They are accommodated next to us. They drink more, and are louder than anybody I've ever seen, which cuts into our sleep time, and they're a little bit more liberal in their dress as they approach the showers as well. Some of our female members were quite taken aback when they happened to see a half-naked German walking up.

But all that to say that I'm a fan of it because, again, it does represent the realities of today. I didn't get to experience it as you have, so I can't really speak from your perspective.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

The second question is on the issue that was already raised and deals with the participation of veterans. Is the Canadian contingent capped at a certain number or can it be bigger?

[BGen Kevin Cotten]

I believe we are capped by the organizers of the march. They're very tolerant of us, though, because they know we've been long-standing supporters. We bring a lot to the march. Often we bring a band with us. They like to see that kind of thing.

I would think there might be some accommodation given to us because of our long-standing relationship. I'm not sure about how big we can make the numbers, but I'm sure we could grow it by a little bit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Thank God they can also hear the cheers.

[BGen Kevin Cotten]

That's right. Yes, absolutely.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I would like to thank Sargent MacIntyre for his participation and for everybody else who was on the team. I understand how hard it is for a perfectly healthy person—for all you guys—to train and to go and participate. It's truly an achievement. Thank you very much for doing it and for your service.

Also, the general knows that I did march 100 kilometres for Soldier On with Mr. Jones. That was quite an experience. It was harder than Nijmegen, not because of the distance, but because of the rain.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

This was a very touching presentation. I want to thank you very much for taking the time to come and share this experience with us.

[BGen Kevin Cotten]

You're welcome, Mr. Chair.

I mentioned that we started each morning with a distinctly Canadian cheer. Perhaps you would join me in it. Basically, it starts with me saying “Nij” and you saying “Megen”. Let's give it a shot.

Nij.

[Some hon. members]

Megen.