Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 19th, 2013

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

I don't know the technical response, and I'll ask the deputy to answer that in a moment, if I may, Mr. Chair. I'm also well aware of the fact that the Canadian Legion is another point of reference where veterans can get the kind of support they need to fill out forms or to navigate through the system.

We intend to do more in that particular area. We think we can expand our outreach and our service to veterans. It isn't wholly that number which you quoted.

Deputy?

[Mary Chaput]

You are correct, sir, in that our infrastructure does not contemplate home visits in each and every case. Our home visit strategy is focused on those who are case managed, meaning those with more complex needs where there are a whole series of supports, a sort of wrap-around service that we're providing for the veteran.

In those other cases where the veteran would like assistance in terms of filling out a form, our client service agents will be happy to work with the veterans over the telephone or online with them to get that work done.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you very much for that.

As you know, Mr. Semianiw, I asked this question last time you were here, along with the deputy minister, about the Canada pension disability clawback or benefit reduction. As you know, if you are 50 years old and you are seriously injured from the military or the RCMP and you are permanently disabled where you can no longer work, you can apply for Canada pension disability. If you have, say, 25 or 30 years in, you also get a portion of your superannuation. However, if you apply for CPP disability and receive it, that CPP disability at 50 is clawed back from your superannuation which, by the way, upsets an awful lot of people out there.

I had asked the last time if it was possible that the department could look at this and come back with any kind of a response. I haven't received that yet so I'll leave that with you again. Perhaps it's possible to get a written response of what the government plans to do, not about the CPP clawback at 65, but the CPP disability clawback which affects everyone in the federal public service, mind you, but it's specifically RCMP and military veterans.

There are two other things I have for you before you go.

The national monument is a beautiful piece that's out there. It's just gorgeous. I'm not a wordsmith to describe how beautiful it is, but it is missing something very important. If you served in the Boer War, Bosnia, or any other conflict of war of that nature, you're not there. They have World War I, World War II, and Korea.

I suggested a while back the words “in the service of Canada” be imprinted on that monument in order to reflect every single person in the past, currently, and in the future. You can't have every battle and conflict on there—I understand that—but if the words “in the service of Canada” or something of that nature were there, then the modern-day veterans, those who served in other areas like Bosnia, Cyprus, etc., would feel more inclusive towards that. I personally believe this because this is what they've told me.

I'll just leave that with you. If you'd like to respond, go ahead.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

I want to thank you for your passion and your suggestions. One of the things we're looking at is how we can best commemorate the various things, wars like the Korean War, which as you know was long forgotten, if you will, or long not commemorated. We now have the Afghanistan war to deal with.

I can only tell you, Mr. Chair, that we will be delving into that as an agenda item going forward.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you. This is my last question for you.

With the Last Post Fund, as you know, the limit of $12,000 was implemented by a previous government in 1995. It went from $24,000 to $12,000. With the new moneys that were passed by Parliament, according to retired Lieutenant-General Lou Cuppens, two-thirds of applicants will still not be eligible for the fund.

Are you at all contemplating raising the $12,000 limit—if it were the $24,000, and with inflation at least $35,000 to $40,000—so that more veterans and their families would be able to qualify for this? With the $12,000 limit, there are still two-thirds of applicants who will be denied.

On my final question, could I have a response from you, sir.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Again, Mr. Chair, we would welcome the recommendations from this committee on that very issue, along with the other recommendations that you may make.

We're open to that, and please help us.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Mr. Minister, thank you very much for your response.

We will now move on to Mr. Lobb, please, for four minutes, and then Mr. Karygiannis.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Minister, with regard to Mr. Stoffer's first question, did you want to elaborate further on your thoughts from the question he put to you, or were you satisfied with that?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

I'm good to go.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay. I wanted to make sure.

The next question I have is dealing with the lump sum. I'd like your thoughts as far as advice that Veterans Affairs provides to veterans who are to receive a lump sum, and how it now can be spread out in a type of annuity payment or a series of payments.

I wonder if you could comment on how veterans feel about that.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

I'll speak to the issue in a global sense, if you will.

This is one of the most misunderstood issues. The misunderstanding of how that actually works has created what I believe to be some discomfort among veterans and veterans groups.

My understanding, and I'll ask the deputy to elaborate, is that before a serving soldier leaves the military, they are able to take advantage of financial advice and support and all of that. When they transition into being veterans, they are also able to avail themselves of that financial advice to enable them to govern their lump-sum payout. Whether they want to extend the payout is a choice that they have. That is an area where there's so much misunderstanding and discomfort.

Deputy, could you elaborate on that, please.

[Mary Chaput]

Yes. Thanks, Minister.

Indeed, as you said, they do have a choice on whether to take it in a single lump sum or a mix of a lower lump sum and periodic payments, or all periodic payments. An amount of funding is provided for veterans to get independent financial counselling as they make that decision. Depending on their age, they may have very different uses or requirements for a lump-sum payment. For some, the advantage of taking it in periodic payments is a means by which they may be able to demonstrate a steady income stream, and for example, qualify for a mortgage or other lifelong decisions and progressions that one makes.

The fact is that most of them are not choosing to take periodic payments. It's been 2% or 1%. They are typically choosing to take it in a lump sum. I can only assume that the independent financial advice they are getting is suggesting that in their particular circumstance that's the best way to go.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I think you hit on an important point, as well. The transitional discussions from Canadian Forces to Veterans Affairs is vitally important. It's going to help to take out some of the misconceptions out there. Lots of people think you get the lump sum and then you never hear from Veterans Affairs again. They don't realize that the earnings loss benefit is out there. Certainly there is a great amount of retraining and different types of therapies that are available.

I wonder if you could comment briefly on that. To me, that is what the new Veterans Charter is about. It is about their wellness as they continue to age and move through life.

[Mary Chaput]

That's right. You're making reference to some of the financial supports we provide to veterans during the period when they're in vocational rehab, when we want them to be concentrating on their health without a lot of financial worry impeding that recovery. During that period we ensure that an earnings loss payment is made so the veteran can be confident that while they're healing, those financial issues are covered off.

We also make some of the same types of payments in other parts of our rehab programs, such as vocational rehab. In that case, in addition to the money that's provided to the veteran or the reimbursements for things like tuition, books, or transportation to and from school, there is financial support provided for child care, as an example. While they're retraining and trying to skill up or re-skill to re-enter the job market, they needn't be worrying about incremental expenses that can be quite significant, such as child care.

There is a whole array of supports that attempt to take those worries off their minds.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister.

To follow up on Mr. Lobb's question, is it possible that at a later time you could send to the committee the number of veterans who are using that opportunity right now?

[Mary Chaput]

Do you mean child care?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

I don't mean child care but education and everything. I believe Mr. Hayes mentioned $75,000. If you could let us know how many veterans are actually accessing that, it would be helpful for this committee.

[Mary Chaput]

Sure.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

We now move to the last questioner—there are four more minutes to go, Mr. Minister—which is Mr. Karygiannis, please.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, your shortcomings are certainly displayed by your attacking my credibility, but I will sort of let it go. I've known you for a long time and I never figured you'd go that low.

Having said that, sir, I have a couple of questions for you. Listening to your deputy, we're told that home visits are only for people who are case managed. Your deputy went so far as to say that a person on the phone will help the veteran—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Are you calling a point of order?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

It's a point of order.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Yes, sir. Go ahead.

It won't interrupt your time, Mr. Karygiannis.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Just with respect to the recent remarks made, I think you covered it nicely before.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

That's a good point.