Veterans Affairs Committee on May 19th, 2016

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Right. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Bratina is next.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

We were talking about service delivery generally. Mr. Leonardo, a lot of the issues you brought up are vital. They deal with compensation amounts and so on. Can you speak to the service delivery aspect?

You did touch on that. From your point of view, what are the big gaps in whatever is available, and however good it is, in getting to the veterans or not getting to the veterans? Could you speak to that?

[Donald Leonardo]

I'll give you an example.

Yesterday I had dental surgery, so last night I was in severe pain. I had a prescription in my pocket and went to the pharmacy. I have A-line and B-line coverage on my Veterans Affairs card, which means I'm covered for everything, and my prescription was declined. That was just getting a prescription.

Not long ago they got rid of the Veterans Affairs treatment authorization centres all across Canada. This was the overruling body for Blue Cross. Now there are no treatment authorization centres. Years ago they got rid of the people who were in Moncton in the Blue Cross office, so now Blue Cross is on their own, and by the way, they only work Atlantic banking hours, so if you go after hours.... I'm in the west, so the pharmacist couldn't even call them, because they're closed.

Just on prescriptions, when we're talking about service delivery, these are the implications of cutting and cutting. Just on that portion, we need to change the way we do things.

You've heard over and over from the testimony that there are so many programs and nobody knows them all. A case manager told me this morning that Blue Cross authorized four pills the next day, but my pharmacist didn't receive this information. My case manager didn't even know this was policy, and she's been there 32 years. There are so many programs and policies for veterans that it's confusing.

The best way is meet the veterans and find their needs. If they have a treatment plan, authorize the medications for their treatment plan. This is simple. Let's change the way we've done things for 100 years and instead let's meet the needs of the veteran in transitioning, treatment, rehabilitation, and lifelong support.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you for that. I jotted those down when you spoke before.

Mr. Thibeau, on the notion of service delivery again, I think you made some important points, especially for the remote communities. Despite the fact that we're going to come up with much better technical things, the face-to-face component is critical, and the training of the people is also critical. Is that fair to say?

It was interesting when Mr. Black referred to the “forgotten war”. I was born in 1944, so I remember the Korean War and the notion that people weren't paying as much attention to it as they had to the Second World War. We'd been through the Second World War and we knew how important that was, so these men and women were forgotten to a large extent.

That compares, Mr. Thibeau, with your experience from the first nation communities that seem to embrace warriors, if I can use that term, the people who did go off to war, in much more of a community setting. Is it fair to say that in the first nations, there would be more respect and understanding of people who went to war?

[Robert Thibeau]

When you talk about veterans in a community, whether it's first nations, Métis, or to some extent the Inuit—the Inuit weren't engaged as much in the first, second, or Korean wars—they are held in the highest regard. If you go to any type of a ceremony where there's a grand entry, the veterans lead, followed by the elders, so that's the respect they have received.

First of all, when you say “warrior”, it does not indicate or even suggest that all our indigenous people are a warrior culture. The warrior culture has been taken falsely. When a conflict between nations took place, ceremonial dances were done to ask for protection before warriors went into battle. That's no different from any Christian going to church and asking for protection from God Almighty when they go into battle. We have to make sure that we label a warrior in the right context.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I understand that, and I wanted to be sure that you knew I understood how the men in first nations are deemed in having to go off to battle.

Would you say that compares, Mr. Black—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Sorry, we are out of time. We will have to come back to that.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I am sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mrs. Wagantall, go ahead.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much, all of you, for being here today.

There is something about being further down the pecking order. So many of my good questions have been asked.

That said, I really appreciate hearing your views, Mr. Thibeau, and this concept of the appreciation in your community for veterans and also the fact that you are rural, in a lot of circumstances. I am from Saskatchewan, so I am very aware of the situation with Saskatoon and with many of our veterans across the board having trouble connecting.

Would there be any advantage in VAC sitting down with veterans from these rural areas in a true consultation and talking about how best to meet those needs in very practical ways?

[Robert Thibeau]

When you do that, you have actually said to the veteran, “We are interested in you now.”

I want to go back and just touch on this very briefly. I want you to understand that.... I teach aboriginal awareness, and I talk about the military component of awareness and the fact that the highest percentage of ethnic groups that entered any of the war campaigns were aboriginals from Canada, who did not have to serve. In most of the treaties, there was a clause that said they would never have to pick up arms to fight for queen and country, or king and country.

Then I go back to a true story. An individual was fighting on the battlefields in France or Germany during the Second World War. The mother was at home with the five-year-old child, with the Indian agent and the policeman showed up to take that child away to residential school.

You ask why those first nations or those indigenous people actually picked up arms to fight for this country. In their mind, they thought things were going to improve.

I listen to everything that goes on with all the consultations and all the groups, and I say, “Welcome to the real world, folks.” We have been behind the eight ball for a long time. Are things getting better? I think so. However, it is you guys who are going to make it work.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Mr. Leonardo, we are talking about service delivery, but at the same time we are aware of the budget, and it is all intertwined. The three major veterans' financial services receive support in the budget.

In looking at that, if you could choose just one thing that you think would impact the welfare of the veterans, what service should be delivered that maybe wasn't there? Is the priority right? Generally, veterans seem pretty pleased with what came out in the budget. Could we have a perspective from you?

[Donald Leonardo]

As I have said many times before, the item in the budget that met the stakeholders' three priorities was increasing the earnings loss benefit. We asked for 100%. We got 90%. I think that is the biggest impact.

As I have said before, the only problem is that they demoted those who are in the reserves and those who served in the 1990s, those who didn't get the pay raises in the late 1990s from Paul Martin. Those who were sergeant and below will now be paid as privates. First Veterans Affairs said they were going to demote them to a senior private rank, so the senior private rank was a demotion. Then they said, “We will give you 90% ELB.” That means a person being paid as a senior private will get a $130 increase, and those in senior ranks will get a $12,000 to $18,000 increase a year.

Under the old Pension Act, which all these people are fighting for, it is $32,000 for everybody. Under this new increase of 90% ELB, however, the private is going to get just over $40,000. The assistant deputy minister of policy said that this is just over the poverty level that has been designated, so that is the reason they reduced them to senior private. Mind you, the major is still going to get $100,000 plus his PIA—permanent impairment allowance—so he gets about $132,000, while the private has to support his family.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you. I'll have to read through that once we're all done here.

Mr. Black, I appreciate your service and your perspective on so many things.

Your numbers are dwindling. We're approaching Canada's 150th birthday and this may be off topic a little, but it is important. As we look towards the celebration in 2017, as a veteran in Canada, what would you like to see in terms of the celebration of where we are today and how we got here?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Black, can you handle that in about 30 seconds?

[Bill Black]

Senator Martin is working on that now, at least for the Korea veterans. We should have not only the Korea veterans, but all of the veterans accumulating on the Hill, and have a ceremony like the one we had many years ago, when Adrienne Clarkson was the Governor General. We should have all the veterans up on the stage on July 1, or at least being entertained. It should be something like that.

Is that what you're...?

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes. I haven't heard, so good.

[Bill Black]

If we could make that happen, it would be great. I'm going to suggest that to Senator Martin, by the way.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Excellent. Okay. Keep us tuned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

That's an excellent answer, Mr. Black. We can all suggest that.

Go ahead, Ms. Lockhart.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you.

Thank you to all of you for your presentations today. You have given us really balanced information to consider, and I appreciate all the different perspectives.

One of the areas I've been focused on with previous witnesses we have brought in has been that transition period. You have each brought up some interesting points.

One of the things we've been talking about, which seems like an easy fix but comes up in every scenario, is paperwork and how overwhelming that is for veterans.

Could you tell me what the most common issue is, and whether you have any quick or easy fixes or suggestions?

I'll start with Mr. Leonardo.

[Donald Leonardo]

Thank you very much.

Every year I get a multitude of paperwork. I pay child support for my disabled 33-year old son, so I get an additional pension amount for my son. Every year I have to prove that I pay this child support, even though I go through the Alberta maintenance enforcement program. This paperwork comes in every year, and I have to fill out this paperwork proving I paid the child support, even though they don't cover the full cost of $435. They only pay $100-and-something, but they still want me to prove it every single year. With all this extra paperwork, I have four Rubbermaid bins full of Veterans Affairs Canada paperwork.

If you have some extra money in the budget, could you send some help to file this for me?

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you. This is one of the things I've been thinking about. We've talked about additional caseworkers, and you brought up veterans service agents and the training they're receiving. Do you have any suggestions on how those two groups could work together to provide better service, and maybe assist with some of this paperwork?

[Donald Leonardo]

We need to go back to the idea of case managers going to meet the veteran and filling the needs. This morning, I was told that a lot of this paperwork occurs because sometimes a veteran dies and Veterans Affairs doesn't know it. That's why they send out this paperwork. I think that if they had more contact with the veteran, they wouldn't have to send out the paperwork.