Veterans Affairs Committee on March 1st, 2022

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I have to tell you, I remember the stories from my grandfather and his experiences in the war, which I found were very difficult for him to speak about, but it made me realize why we have freedoms here. It's so crucial for children to learn at a young age, and maybe we could implement this to stop these incidents. Let's be honest; the younger they are, the quicker they learn and the better adults they become.

I like what you said about the financial situation not always being the way to do it. Could there be something that we could implement into the rules that would force or mandate individuals to do that?

[Steven Clark]

It would be very productive, if it could be done to say that in addition, along with or instead of a financial penalty, there would be a requirement that the individual spend time with a veterans' organization or a school or a veteran. That could be very easily set up, and I think the knowledge gained and the impact would be invaluable.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know I only have a minute left.

With the construction of any new monuments, would you say that signage and education to make people realize that these are the consequences should these acts continue would be something that should be posted where people can clearly read that?

[Steven Clark]

I would not be supportive of that.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Okay.

[Steven Clark]

I think what we need to do is to stress exactly why the memorials are here, but to make reference to what could happen if you disrespect it would not be the way to go.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

I now give the floor to our colleague Churence Rogers, for five minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to our guest, Mr. Clark, and thank you for your service and the things you do on behalf of veterans and Legions across the country.

Like you and many other Canadians, I too was disgusted to see such blatant disrespect for the National War Memorial site in Ottawa and was very disturbed to see what was going on.

I'd like to focus my attention a little bit on Legions and what they do for our communities across the country. Thank you for everything you do to work with the Legions across Canada. In fact, I have 10 Legions in my riding of Bonavista—Burin—Trinity. I'm so proud of the work that they do for veterans, active military members and their families, and the community at large.

I'm wondering if you could explain some of the services that Legions offer and why you think it is important to keep local Legions at the heart of our local communities.

[Steven Clark]

From a service perspective, the main goal of Legion branches is to support veterans with the care they need. We are blessed by the generosity of Canadians to have poppy funds available to provide that emergency assistance to veterans who find themselves in need. That is the core of what the organization does, but in addition to that, Legion branches also serve as a community hub or a cornerstone of the community as we have called it.

You will find Legion branches all across the country in communities large and small. They are places where people gather for a variety of reasons. Whether for happy times or not-so-happy times, it is important that there be a gathering location and a spot where people in a community can come together in unity for a purpose.

The work of Legions across the country is very important so that we can continue to make sure that veterans receive those supports and also, as we're talking about today, to ensure that we perpetuate remembrance, that we never put that from our sight. It's always important that we promote remembrance on every occasion we can.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I agree, Mr. Clark. I am a former high school teacher and administrator and a former mayor of a small community. We engaged regularly with Legions and veterans on Remembrance Day and for other ceremonies throughout the year. Over the last couple of years, of course, with the COVID-19 pandemic, every industry and community has been affected. Nobody has been immune from having to adjust and cope with frequently changing circumstances.

Can you describe how Legions across Canada have dealt with and adjusted their operations because of the pandemic and how resilient they have been during that period?

[Steven Clark]

Throughout the pandemic, I continue to be impressed by the ingenuity of Legion branches across the country. Currently, as of last week, 7% of our branches still have not opened since March 2020, 27% of our branches are fully open and the rest to varying degrees, so the pandemic is still not behind us from an operations point of view.

The Royal Canadian Legion was extremely grateful to the Government of Canada for the veterans organizations emergency support fund that was provided. That was a hand-up. I'm not calling it a handout, but a hand-up, to Legion branches nationwide. Through that program, 998 branches received assistance, and it was a lifeline for them. It enabled them to continue on with their operations, but they had to supplement it. Whether it was through other fundraising initiatives or simply reaching out to the community, that's how they continued on with their operations. Community support was key.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I agree. I received numerous phone calls and talked to members of the different Legions throughout Bonavista—Burin—Trinity seeking support. I was happy to see that we were able to deliver some support. I'm not sure whether you have any other ideas about how to provide other levels of support from either the federal or provincial governments or communities at large.

[Steven Clark]

Branches are autonomous and they are responsible for their own affairs. This reaching out to the government for the VOESF was the first time the Legion did that in its 100-year history.

I don't foresee that. We need to make sure that we look after our own operations. I appreciate the sentiment, but we need to progress internally.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I agree. Actually, it's good to hear that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Mr. Chair, I'm not sure if I have any time left.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

No, it is over. I'm so sorry.

We will now move on to two brief two-and-a-half-minute question periods.

Mr. Desilets, go ahead, please. You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Clark, can you briefly answer my two questions?

Given what's going on right now—I am, of course,talking about this atrocious war that we're experiencing from a distance—do you think that young and old alike are more aware of this whole phenomenon and this notion of sacrifice, freedom, and self-sacrifice?

[Steven Clark]

On the whole, yes.

Look back to Afghanistan. Prior to that, an individual's connection to war may have been the Second World War, grandfathers or great uncles. Afghanistan brought it to the family and brought it to the neighbours. We're seeing the same thing now with Ukraine. People are more aware and understanding.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Earlier, you mentioned financial penalties.

Do you think it would be more relevant if people who do these things did community service or got involved with veterans' organizations? In Ottawa, there was looting.

Should they be required to do community service, such as helping to clean up or maintain sites, rather than be subjected to monetary penalties?

[Steven Clark]

Yes, it would. Schoolchildren in the Netherlands do this not out of a penalty but out of a sense of obligation. Having this as a requirement for people who are convicted of such atrocities, absolutely, I would certainly support that.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Clark, thank you for your clear answers.

I am finished, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

That's excellent; thank you, Mr. Desilets.

I now recognize Ms. Blaney for two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you again, Chair.

I just have to say that this conversation is so thoughtful, and I really appreciate it. I represent a riding that has 11 Legions. I've done some very interesting Remembrance Days, and so far the most Legions I've reached is four. It's a big distance to cover.

They really are a cornerstone of the community, and I just want to acknowledge how hard it was for Legions—I watched that in my own riding when COVID hit—to even ask for help. I just want to acknowledge that, and I really respect what you said, Mr. Clark, about how forceful these groups are in figuring out how to manage things, how hard they work to make it continue and how flexible they are.

We have talked a lot about education and, I would say, more about accountability than punishment and hopefully having people understand what they do in a new way. As for me, I have young people in my family. I have some cousins who are younger who are serving, and some of my kids' friends are also serving. I think now that we also see what's happening in Ukraine, it's becoming real to young people in many ways because they know that people they know may be participating in one way or another.

I'm just wondering if you could talk a little bit about what the desecration of any...and I want to go back to that. You outlined several desecrations that we've seen in the last few years across Canada. How do we bring this to a place where people have more ownership and understand sacrifice? It's a terrible thing to say, but maybe out of seeing Ukraine we will see that sort of connection to what it is to sacrifice for a country.

I leave it at that.