Veterans Affairs Committee on June 15th, 2023

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Cyr.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Now let's go on Zoom.

I'd like to invite the MP from North Island—Powell River, Ms. Rachel Blaney, to take the floor for six minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

To put on the record quickly, I know we will be called for a vote. My recommendation is that we agree to vote by app, take five minutes to do so and then give these women the precious time they deserve.

I'll leave that to you, Chair.

First of all, I want to thank the witnesses so much for their powerful testimony today and for their service. I also want to honour all of the women who are there in the room behind you. I am really moved by how many people showed up to stand with you and how important it is that these voices be heard. Thank you for testifying, and thank you also to those who showed up.

I think the words and the behaviours you have are symbols of the warriors that you are. I want to thank you for that and for being agents of change and for allowing us, as members of Parliament, to also be agents of change by advocating and amplifying your voice.

My first question is to retired major Carly Arkell.

I understand that VAC denied your disability claim based on your genetic condition. I'm wondering whether you could talk a little bit about the fact that your physicians were very clear that your service aggravated the condition. Has VAC accepted that?

[Carly Arkell]

Thank you for the opportunity to speak about this.

It was clear that the injuries were related to service, and I have awards for a couple of specific joints. However, as an overall whole person, when I applied for the specific condition called Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, despite there clearly being information in my medical records, the Veterans Affairs medical officer who reviewed the file....

I actually have a copy of it, because I'm appealing it. The BPA provided me with that to provide my civilian doctor.

The Veterans Affairs medical officer zoomed in on the medically unexplained symptoms, so he pulled out evidence of the mental health department saying that it was all in my head. A couple of physicians said, “Yes, you're flexible, but that's normal. That's nothing. You're just stressed and you need to get more sleep in order to manage your stress.”

I'm in the process of appealing it, but because there are no guarantees it's going to be successful, my case manager advised me to apply for each individually affected joint. I currently have an award for my left shoulder, my lower back and bilateral hips.

Once I was denied the overall condition, I submitted additional applications for my neck, my right shoulder, bilateral wrists, bilateral thumbs and bilateral ankles, and I was immediately sent a medical form for each individual joint. I have to have a medical appointment with my family physician for each individual one. I am extremely fortunate to have a family physician, and I am extremely fortunate that she's willing to spend the time on that, but that takes away from treating my other conditions. That takes time in her schedule away from other patients, and it's ridiculous. My physiotherapist is doing the measurements for the range of motion and could easily fill out the forms, but it has to be a medical officer.

I can't fill out the forms on my own. I need help to do that and then I need help processing that. All my energy is going towards that, so I can't apply for other conditions.

I have gastrointestinal issues. I have issues with my autonomic nervous system. As a result of all of this other stuff, I have a condition that resembles long COVID. I had it before COVID happened, and it's debilitating.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to go to retired petty officer Lisa Nilsson next.

You have a wheelchair that was provided to you while you were still serving in the CAF. Recently, you needed a minor repair. Will you tell the committee what happened when you approached VAC and what you did to fix it?

[Lisa Nilsson]

I will give you a bit of a background, if that's okay.

I had these injuries before, and I was selected and I was competing in the Warrior Games in Tampa in 2019. I had an accident while I was there and I had a neurogenic shock. I actually damaged my C2, C3 and C4 vertebrae, I believe. It took a bit.... Initially, the swelling went down. It's a long story.

Anyway, CAF had bought me a wheelchair to assist with functionality for me to go long distances and for pain. Once I retired, I needed a quick brake adjustment. It was going to be $50 per brake. I went to VAC to submit the claim. They denied me and said two things.

One was that it was a CAF problem, not a VAC problem. Two, according to them, there was no medical evidence that I needed the wheelchair. Therefore, I didn't need it. I have a prescription from my nurse practitioner, although that's not for the same thing that I was prescribed, and CAF bought it for me, but the prescription from the nurse practitioner is not appropriate or good enough. They want it from a specialist, and you just can't willy-nilly get in to see a specialist these days, so I just paid for it on my own.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I understand that if you get a whole physical assessment, VAC will provide you with a brand new wheelchair, over just paying the $50 to repair it. Is that correct?

[Lisa Nilsson]

Yes, that is correct. There are different line items that VAC will pay for.

Basically, if you're given a mobility aid in the Canadian Armed Forces, it's expected that they'll cover it, but they won't. They'll only cover the items that they actually pay for, so instead of paying $100 for a couple of brakes to be adjusted and to be repaired, they would go out and buy a $7,000 or $8,000 new wheelchair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Now, let's start the second round.

I'd like to invite the MP from Yorkton—Melville, Mrs. Cathay Wagantall, to take the floor for five minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I just want to briefly mention this. When my husband and I were young, we went to a seminar on being good mates to each other and the differences between men and women. One of the gentlemen was talking about women and how we're like fine china teacups. My husband leaned over and said, “You are the most beautiful Pyrex I have ever seen.”

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

You guys are all amazing. I just want to say that.

I want to ask Ms. Siew a question.

We know about rape as a weapon in war. It appalls me. When I hear it was used as a weapon of war within my own country and armed forces.... You're from 1975. I think we're of a similar vintage.

You said:

I can state that overall the military, forced into this change in the 1970s, did so begrudgingly and with an unwillingness to accommodate women. They maintained this posture for as long as they possibly could. They proactively dismissed, mistreated, humiliated and even hurt us.

Both policy and culturally based barriers set conditions for abuse and harassment—physical, mental and sexual—and negated our voices.

Yours is the first one, out of all the testimonies from those who have come out, to say that so clearly. I think you have the foundation, experience and grounds to speak to this.

[Capt(N) (Ret'd) Louise Siew]

I certainly do. I have seen it over and over again. I have seen, on basic training, warrant officers sleeping with cadets and using it as a tool to get sex—convincing a cadet that, if they do this, they'll pass basic training. This is basic officer training. This is since 1979. I caught him and brought it to my senior leadership. The young recruit was sent home and the warrant officer was returned to work with me. It goes on and on. I have seen it over and over again.

Sexual abuse was used as a way of almost controlling—in some cases—women. I spent a year, at one time, in my career as a commander hiding from senior officers. I mean that literally.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much for being so blatantly honest about that and the woundedness that exists because of it.

I would like to ask Carly Arkell a question.

I have this on your background. It says, “Prior to joining the Survivor Perspectives Consulting Group”. They were one of our first witnesses. I was so impressed with their capabilities and their desire to see healing and improvement. It's such a unique way of dealing with this issue within the armed forces. You're dealing with higher and lower ranks, and all of those issues.

Can you speak to that a bit—your experience there and the value you see in it?

[Carly Arkell]

Thank you. I'd love to.

We were a group of women who were frustrated. It was just under two years ago, when there was a lot of news and scandal about sexual misconduct in the military affecting those in senior ranks. We knew it didn't have to be this way. We knew there was more that could be done. We talk about weapons of war. It's fratricide. It infects and affects everyone. It makes the environment toxic.

I joined in 1998. I was SHARP-trained three times between my two different elements. I guess I needed the extra times. I just learned jokes. It was a joke. It didn't go anywhere.

One of our founders, Donna, developed a training program while working with another one in civilian sexual assault.

I'm sorry. I'm getting a little flustered here.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's okay. Take your time. It's fine.

[Carly Arkell]

She adapted the training, with their assistance and permission, for a uniform environment. It respects that we are soldiers. We are using violence as our tool, but we're still people. We need to take care of our people. The training focuses on not belittling anyone and not making people feel bad, or as if they have to be on edge or they can't be themselves. It's about humanity.

We've had people go into the training and be combative about being there, and then come out saying, “It's the first time I haven't felt like I'm the bad guy.” We've had other people who were like, “Wow, I didn't realize I was contributing to the problem. I didn't think that.” The impact has been profound.

My involvement has been very limited due to my health, but all of us founders and many other survivors in the background working together are contributing where we can and how we can. It's part of healing for us. We want to make it a better place for our colleagues and for our children.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Do you sense there is a desire to see this as one of the significant tools to combat military sexual trauma and to come out of it better for men and women within the armed forces, and for the future of our young men and women who are going to serve?

[Carly Arkell]

I strongly believe this is a powerful tool. There's been some reluctance from the CAF for various reasons, but we've had interest expressed to us by other foreign militaries. If CAF won't take it, we'll go overseas.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

All right. Thank you so much.

I'm sorry, but I'm out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Mrs. Wagantall.

Now for five minutes, I'd like to invite Mr. Rogers from Bonavista—Burin—Trinity to speak.

Please go ahead.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

First of all, let me say a big welcome to all of our guests. These events you talk about and stories you tell are very riveting, and we've heard from lots of witnesses about some of the issues you've raised here again this evening.

I'd like to hear from our online guest, PO Nilsson, first of all. You mentioned several recommendations you would have for the committee. I suggest you submit these to the clerk in writing. Are there one or two you'd like to focus on? I know we only have five minutes, so if I could ask each of you to give me your top recommendation, what would it be?

PO Nilsson, maybe in one minute you could give us a couple of examples, and then give the others a minute each as well.

[Lisa Nilsson]

Absolutely, sir.

I've already submitted my recommendations. I just didn't quite get them in fast enough for translation. There are two major ones. The first one would be to remove bias and have bias training. Whether it's an unconscious or conscious bias, whether it's from a situation they've been in or it's a value they've been brought up with, help people to identify that in adjudicating certain claims.

Additionally, if a member comes in with a pre-existing health condition, and if they come in with an acute condition—it's not always mental health—have that looked at appropriately.

I'll do one more and then stop. It's to lift the ban on non-service-related illnesses and injuries, which are not covered by VAC, such as cancer, diabetes and genetic conditions such as hypermobility spectrum disorder and Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. These injuries may not be caused by our service, but they're definitely exacerbated by our service. Lots of times those injuries are non-existent until we are hurt. I'm awaiting genetic testing for Ehlers-Danlos syndrome.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

That's great. Thank you so much.

I know the chair is watching our clock, so I'll start with Major Arkell, if you could.

[Carly Arkell]

Can I go last?