Is that better?
Evidence of meeting #67 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #67 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
We sit down, we look at reports and we bring ideas. She makes the decisions.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
I'm sorry, the time is over. Thank you, Mrs. Wagantall.
Now I'd like to invite Mr. Randeep Sarai, for six minutes, please.
October 26th, 2023 / 4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you.
I want to first thank all three witnesses for coming and sharing your stories. It is very heartfelt to hear. All of you seem to be trailblazers and veterans in the sense of being among the first to go in your respective fields—whether it's in the navy, the army or artillery. It seems like you were plugged in as a policy, but without enough amendments made to make it appropriate for where you were supposed to be.
We now look at it and think of a gender-based analysis plus, but it doesn't seem like that was talked about back then. If it's ever imperative, I think hearing you and your testimonies demonstrates that this needs to be done in every government policy and every implementation of anything, including the armed forces.
I want to first say thank you, Ms. Langlois, for your service. I know it's pretty difficult to be here to talk about your experience. It's also remarkable how much you've been able to do as a mother and being in the military at the same time. It's important for our study to know what you're doing.
We really need to continue our work to improve programs and services for all veterans, especially for women veterans.
In your experience, what are the main issues that women veterans are facing when transitioning to civilian life?
You touched on it a bit. Some people gave you a break in terms of respecting your leadership skills and gave you a chance at being a teacher.
What are the other challenges that specifically women veterans face when transitioning to civilian life?
4:20 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
At the time, in 1997, when I got out, I almost felt like I had just disappeared. I was very fortunate, though. I was a full-time mother. Not many people, obviously, could do that, but that was what I was doing.
If I had gone back to the workforce, I think it would have been a challenge, because of what I got experience in during my career in the military. Civilian jobs and .50 cal.... I was qualified in a lot of infantry courses, artillery, so I didn't know what I would be doing.
I looked at it that way, but with the teacher education, when she asked me that question and told me that, I was like, “Wow, okay. I do have that responsibility to do that.”
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
What you mean to say is that it would be helpful, for example, to get credentials, a certificate or something tangible that would show the skills that you learned other than a .50 calibre. That might not be.... There are very few career choices that you can use to demonstrate that, but you could use those other skills to help you get other jobs or training, or, if you trained people in the military, you could become an instructor, because you've done that before.
Would that be a better way, whereby you can get tangibly, on paper, have something you can show an employer when you get out to the real world? We're honestly trying to figure this out, so that we can help future veterans transition from CAF into civilian service.
4:20 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
That's right. Yes. What I said in my paper was those ideas, yes. Thank you.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you, Ms. Langlois.
I'll go to Ms. Aiken.
I think your research focused on health system transformation, as well as evidence-informed policy-making. What is your input on how the government can better adapt its benefits and program delivery systems to be more inclusive regarding women veterans?
4:20 p.m.
Veteran, Vice-President Research and Innovation, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
Veterans Affairs has actually done, I think, quite a bit of work in that regard. I suffered two physical injuries while I was in. I'm a client of Veterans Affairs, and I'm under the old Pension Act. When the new veterans charter came in, they made some improvements around programming that was more accessible to veterans and might have benefited my colleagues on this call around education and things like that, and then actually counselling around education, which was great too.
Another thing they've done recently that I think is very important as well is that if a veteran is a seriously injured veteran and can't use the benefits, those are available for their family, which benefits predominantly women generally, I'd say, because we still see that 86% of the people serving in the military are men.
I believe there has been some progress made with Veterans Affairs. With National Defence it's a tougher call. It's a male-dominated area.
I had two friends who taught SHARP training. That was the original sexual harassment and racism prevention training back in the late eighties and early nineties. They are very traumatized from that, from how they were treated. I'm not sure.... You have to educate people. I don't know how you do a better job of it. We still see examples all the time of people misbehaving and the culture not changing, so I'm afraid that I don't have a great solution for the military, though I do think about it a lot.
I do think that Veterans Affairs has made some progress.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much.
I'll now give the floor to Luc Desilets for the next six minutes.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all three of you for being here and for your service.
We started this study weeks ago. I don't know if I'm becoming more and more sensitive, but, my goodness, what we're hearing here is huge and appalling. Even though I understand what a war is, I really have a hard time accepting the collateral damage experienced by men, and by women in particular. I leave this meeting, and I'm in a bubble, and yet I'm only an observer outside of all that. So I want to express all the respect I have for all three of you.
Before I begin, I must also tell you that I will soon be asking my colleagues to debate a motion that I proposed some time ago and that is aimed at highlighting the work done by veterans during the Afghanistan mission. We absolutely have to deal with this. I'm going to ask my colleagues not to ramble so that we can get right to the heart of the motion and avoid what we went through last week. Furthermore, if someone moves the vote quickly, I will be very happy, even if my motion is defeated.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Mr. Desilets, I'm stopping the clock to remind you that we have set aside 10 or 15 minutes at the end of the meeting for a discussion. That might be an opportunity to put forward—
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I could propose it then. Will the witnesses still be here?
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
My goodness, I'm happy! Thank you very much.
My first question is for you, Ms. Laverdure.
It's good to see you here again. We've had many opportunities to talk in the past. You have an extraordinary pedigree and experience.
In one of your testimonies, one thing struck me terribly, and that's the fact that you continue to help veterans, especially with the darn paperwork. You help them fill out the forms so they can receive services. You told us that, when the request was in English—the language you used—the response was much quicker.
What about applications made by women? Based on the figures, we can see that it's still taking longer to respond to women's requests than to those of men.
Is that your understanding as well?
4:25 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
Yes, it's always longer.
I don't know if you've read the latest report by Nishika Jardine, our ombud. According to the report, there's still a great deal of discrimination against women in the processing of claims for compensation or for programs at Veterans Affairs Canada. In the 2022 report, that is still the case.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
How do you explain this difference in processing between applications from men and women? What do you think the reasons are for that?
4:25 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
As I mentioned in my opening remarks, there is a mindset, both at the Department of National Defence and at Veterans Affairs Canada, that women have no place in the Canadian Forces.
I joined the forces in 1980 as an airframe technician. The trade had just been created in 1979. I was one of the 1% of women who started in this trade.
When you arrive, you have all kinds of problems, and there were allowances. Still, it was as if I didn't even have the right to be there. That's their mentality.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
You're clearly telling me that women and men are treated differently. Is it as ridiculous as that?
4:30 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
Yes, and it's even more true in the case of francophones.
4:30 p.m.
Veteran, As an Individual
Yes. I deal with a lot of francophone veterans in Quebec. I certainly don't meet any outside Quebec. There's no doubt that a female veteran who leaves the forces and has to apply for benefits under Veterans Affairs Canada programs will come after a male veteran.