Mr. Speaker, the member misunderstood what I said. I said that the surplus of the public service pension plan is the property of the membership and that the surplus should be negotiated in terms of what its use and purpose will be. I did not say that they should just pay out. I said that some of the options are to reduce the contributions or to increase the benefits of the pension holders.
With respect to the Canada pension plan we have seen a different sort of pension plan. We have basically two types of pension plans. One is a defined contribution plan, which is a percentage type plan whereby employees over a period of time get a percentage of their salary as a pension. The other form is a defined contribution plan where the employee and the employer make contributions to a plan. It is like the purchase of an RRSP. Whatever is earned, the principal and so on, is used to purchase an annuity, either a single annuity or a joint spousal annuity.