Madam Speaker, I can tell by the comments from the hon. member that he has not visited New Zealand because if he had, he would know how foolish his comments are. Unfortunately, he has been listening too much to Maude Barlow who also has not made any logical analysis of what has happened in New Zealand. I can understand why she is opposed to it; her special interests are greatly threatened by the things that have taken place in New Zealand.
In any debate on this issue I always say to people that if they can afford to go, please visit New Zealand. When they come back I know they will say to me that I was telling the truth and that those on the other side who have discredited it really were not.
The member mentions such things as a higher teenage suicide rate. It is wonderful how figures can lie and liars can figure all of that stuff. I am not applying that to the member; I am applying it to the people who have used these figures.
In one year in New Zealand a mass suicide took place in a Maori community. They were sniffing some sort of petroleum product. That bumped the suicide rate so high for one year because New Zealand has a relatively low suicide rate among youngsters. It was used as a basis for claiming that the suicide rate had gone up in New Zealand. It is a massive distortion.
In addition, there are the crime rate statistics that are used by people like Maude Barlow. If the New Zealand police are asked about it they say the reason for it is that they changed the computer system and the way crimes were reported. Everything that comes over on the phone lines is now reported rather than under the old manual system when only actual convictions were reported. It looks as if there has been a crime rate increase, but there are many other things there.
The hon. member mentioned the GST in New Zealand. It is true that when New Zealand went bankrupt a GST was introduced. That had to be done because it was an emergency situation. The International Monetary Fund was controlling things.
I have had the benefit of sitting down for an hour and a half with former prime minister David Lange who was the labour prime minister at the time New Zealand went bankrupt. He was gracious enough to give me some of his time about two years ago. I never thought that I would have deep respect for somebody who was a labour prime minister.
It was a very interesting and quite impressive discussion. He described how his philosophy took a 180 degree turn. He had to make a 180 degree turn with respect to what he had believed all of his life in terms of socialism. He came to the position that without a robust, healthy investor and private sector you cannot have social programs. What you end up doing is destroying your country. What a massive turnaround that was for him.
He told me that once they began the cuts in New Zealand the people were so solidly behind them because just like here, they had seen the government waste for so long. They could not believe the government was actually doing something. It gave such tremendous impetus that the government went faster and faster. It got the job done so very quickly that very rapidly the recovery began.
I was down in New Zealand about a month ago. Unfortunately it was not on pleasant circumstances because my mother-in-law had had a heart attack. I can assure this House that had any members been down there with me they would have been really impressed with the feeling of vibrancy, the really good feelings that are there.
People feel good about what has happened to their country. It has become competitive internationally. Certainly there was a GST introduced and it is still there today.
What has happened is that there is a consumption tax. That GST is a consumption tax, which is very easy to do in a country that is isolated from other countries.
In terms of income tax, there have been massive reductions in income tax in New Zealand. It should be across the board because New Zealand has recognized something that these members opposite do not recognize. It is the successful people who create the jobs and create the wealth for the country. If they are taxed to the point that they leave, their country is destroyed, their jobs are destroyed along with everything they stand for.
I welcome the question. I am very pleased to have replied. Perhaps I was a little harsh on him at the beginning by saying he was foolish. That was unfair. I voluntarily retract that even though he has not asked me to.
I would invite him any time to take a trip to New Zealand, hopefully not with a committee because that really is not fair. Sometime he should pay for his own trip to New Zealand. There are some wonderful deals to go there. Take a look for himself.
As soon as he gets back, he can pick up the phone, call Maude Barlow and tell her she is completely out of line.