As I was about to say to the very hon. lady opposite, I have no doubt that the government members here have nothing but the best of motives in the position they take. They place greater emphasis on the importance of the authority of judges as opposed to those of us who place greater emphasis on the importance of the authority of parliament. It is a legitimate debate to have in a democracy.
I do not choose to castigate my colleagues opposite for arriving at a different conclusion than do I. I would invite them to accept a similar position of equanimity when it comes to such a critically important debate.
The hon. member for Winnipeg South castigated the official opposition for calling for immediate action in its motion. Let me make reference to that motion as it has not been read for some time. What we simply seek is “that the government should take immediate measures to reinstate the law that was struck down by a recent decision of the court of British Columbia regarding the possession of child pornography, even if that entails”—not necessarily but even if that entails—“invoking section 33 of the Constitution Act, the notwithstanding clause”.
On this point, if the House were to pass this motion and officials from the justice department were to conclude that other reasonable measures could be taken immediately to counteract the effects of this judgment apart from the invocation of section 33, then I am sure we would support that. I agree section 33 is the ultimate legal constitutional lever available at our disposal and we should use it with great discretion.
I would call on members of the government, if this motion passes, to provide us with reasoned opinions as to whether or not there are other legal avenues available to act immediately, rather than waiting for the indefinite appeal process.
The second element of the motion says essentially that notwithstanding any standing order or usual practice of this House the bill would be considered in one sitting so as to expedite it. I think it is a reasonable motion.
I also read a letter sent on January 20, 1999 to the right hon. Prime Minister from some 70 members of the government, including the hon. member for Winnipeg South who said that it was unreasonable for the opposition to call for immediate action in this. Yet I look at the letter to which he has affixed his name where he, among others, wrote to the Prime Minister “We ask that you send an unmistakable message to the nation that your government will not tolerate any proliferation of child pornography through the weakness of our laws. We ask that the government not wait for the appeal of the B.C. decision to be heard, but immediately act in defence of Canada's children”.
This is not me speaking; it is conscientious members opposite who have signed this letter. I am not using this as a partisan lever. I am just pointing out that the member for Winnipeg South seems a bit schizophrenic today, because the letter went on to say “The undersigned recommend that strong new child pornography legislation be introduced as soon as the House resumes”. That was yesterday. We, the official opposition, introduced this motion as soon as we had the opportunity.
The member and his colleagues went on to say “We ask also that you consider the use of the notwithstanding clause”. Let me quote that again in case the member for Winnipeg South is not listening. “We ask also that you consider the use of the notwithstanding clause or other equivalent effective measures”—which we are open to in our motion—“to send a clear message that Canada's charter of rights will never again be used to defend the sexual abuse of Canada's children”.
They call to immediately act at the first opportunity in the House and to consider invoking the notwithstanding clause. I would suggest their wording is even stronger than that proposed in the motion before us. This is a letter that was signed by my colleague from Winnipeg South who just stood up and for making the same argument imputed my motives as being strictly partisan and political. I resent that.
Yes, I am a politician. I am a partisan. But on matters like this one I do believe that common sense and common values can prevail.
I submit that if we were to consult our constituents broadly there would not be a debate. There would be as close as we could find the unanimity in a democratic society on the need for this sovereign legislature to use all of its power to act and to act immediately.
Some of the members opposite offer soothing words about respecting the judicial process and allowing the appeals process to work. I know as well as they do, and certainly as well as the member for Scarborough, a lawyer, does, that the appeals process can be tortuously long at times. It is a slow tortuous process open to procedural delays and there is no guarantee that this will come to a satisfactory conclusion.
In fact there seems to be among those opposing this motion a presumption that the higher courts, the appeal courts, will overturn the absurd, disgraceful, bizarre judgment, as I would characterize it, rendered at the B.C. court. I do not share their presumption. I might be able to share their presumption if I had not seen over the past 15 years the courts grow bolder and bolder and bolder in asserting essentially a legislative power and legislating from the bench, notwithstanding the democratic consensus of Canadians on critical issues.
This is not a political issue. I suspect and hope there are members of all parties who will support this motion this evening.
I have just received a copy of a letter from the Canadian Police Association which is also speaking on behalf of victims of crime, CAVEAT and the Canadian Resource Centre for Victims of Crime. It is signed by Mr. Grant Obst, the president of the CPA. It is a letter to my house leader with a copy to the Minister of Justice in which he writes:
I have been made aware of the motion you made this morning in the House of Commons calling upon the federal government to enact legislation criminalizing the possession of child pornography. On behalf of the Canadian Police Association, let me lend you the support of our 35,000 members across the country.
We believe that the current law is constitutional—
—contra the judge—
and expect the B.C. Court of Appeal and possibly the Supreme Court of Canada to uphold it. However, that will take time, and some cases have already been delayed or thrown out due to the judgment.
Cases have been thrown out. Pedophiles have been let out on the street as a consequence.
There is clearly an urgency to this issue and we therefore hope that parliament can act swiftly to ensure that the laws against possession of child pornography are upheld in B.C. and in the rest of Canada. Given that urgency, we support any action which will ensure the laws against possession of child pornography are upheld.
We applaud your initiative on this matter.
It does not say anything about any party. It talks about the principle of the issue before us.
I appeal to all members to put aside partisanship, not to impute motives. One of the reasons I am a member of the Reform Party is because I oppose judicial usurpation of democratic authority from the parliament. It is one of the reasons I left the Liberal Party and joined the Reform Party. But that does not mean Canadians cannot agree in principle beyond partisanship that there is a need from time to time to use the constitutional levers put at our disposal to protect not just our children but perhaps even more importantly the principle of parliamentary supremacy. That is what this debate comes down to.
Some members seem to believe that invoking section 33, the notwithstanding clause, characterizes an overreaction. The real true overreaction, the real legal nuclear bomb if you will, is the abuse of judicial authority exercised by judges, such as the one in this case, where they use their own narrow, parochial, social, political values to impose them on society contra the virtual unanimity of Canadian democracy.
I call on my colleagues on all sides of the House to not impute motives to one another here but let us assert the sovereignty of this parliament. We can act. The Constitution gives us the power to act and we must act. To do otherwise is to abdicate our fundamental democratic responsibility.