Debates of May 9th, 2005

Sponsorship Program

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there are no contradictions on this point: Liberal MPs who benefited from dirty money are part of the Prime Minister's inner circle. They include parliamentary secretaries, special advisers and the Prime Minister's own principal secretary.

The Prime Minister said that anyone who knew about dirty deals and did not say anything should resign. Do these confessions not make it clear that someone should be fired?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, if we are going to rely on individual testimony, then we ought to accept as fact that there are allegations against the Conservative Party, for instance, or that there are allegations against the Parti Québécois, the Bloc cousins in Quebec. That would not be fair to the reputations of the Conservatives nor the reputations of the Bloc. In fact, it would not be fair to anyone involved in the political process in Canada.

What would be fair is to follow the leadership of this Prime Minister to support the work of Justice Gomery and get to the truth because this is an issue that is important for all Canadians and we owe it to Canadians to get to the truth.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister himself has said what is fair. He said, “Anybody who knew about that and did nothing should resign immediately”.

A top Liberal organizer has testified that he helped funnel $300,000 in laundered cash to the Liberal Party. Today he revealed that the transport minister's director of communications, Irène Marcheterre, received $6,000 in dirty money for campaign work. Why is she still holding a senior position with the minister?

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, I would caution the member not to go on one more time with unsubstantiated allegations. The reality is that there are processes in place to look at these things. We will listen to the evidence, talk to the individuals and make our decisions in due course.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today at the Gomery inquiry, Benoît Corbeil revealed that the campaign of the former minister and current member for Bourassa received a brown envelope stuffed with $5,000 in dirty money. A year ago, the Prime Minister said that if a member of his cabinet or caucus was involved in the sponsorship scandal then they should resign on the spot.

Will the member for Bourassa be held accountable for his involvement in the scandal?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, these are nothing but unproven allegations. These are not facts. There are many other allegations, for example, that the Conservative government at the time was involved in more political interference than the Liberal government.

The fact is that any of these allegations are simply that. They are allegations and they are unproven. Whether they are allegations against the Conservatives, the Bloc or the Liberals, Canadians want us to get to the bottom of this issue and do the right thing, which is exactly what our Prime Minister is doing. He is putting country above party and he is doing the right thing. He is getting to the bottom of this issue for Canadians and not playing cheap politics with--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary Southeast.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this is all about the Liberal Party putting itself ahead of the country. Does he not understand that? These are not allegations, sir. These are admissions by senior people who ran the Liberal Party and who are admitting to the dirty money.

The Prime Minister last year said, “Anyone who knew about that and did nothing should resign immediately”. Now we know that there are parliamentary secretaries, MPs and senior staff who received dirty money. The testimony and the evidence is there.

Will they be held accountable or not? Will the Prime Minister keep his word and fire those who had knowledge about the scandal?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, there is little wonder that, in reference to the hon. member for Calgary Southeast, the Friday Globe and Mail editorial stated:

Well, perhaps Canadians are fairer- minded than...[the member for Calgary Southeast]. Perhaps they are not as keen to seize on any excuse, however tenuous, to push the country into an election. Perhaps they have higher standards.

It is interesting to note as well that today's Ottawa Citizen referred to the hon. member as the “Prince of Meanness”.

Canadians do not like meanness. They like greatness. That is why they support a great Prime Minister, not a mean party like the Conservative Party that is doing the wrong thing at a crucial time.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Benoît Corbeil has confirmed the statements made by Jean Brault of Groupaction: $50,000 of the sponsorship money was used to pay election workers for the Liberal Party during the 2000 election; $50,000 was paid to persons who were specifically identified, along with the exact amounts that they received.

Now that there is absolutely no doubt about this and that the government is in a position to check these statements, since there is a lot of staff from its ministerial offices involved, will it put that dirty money in a trust at the earliest opportunity?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, we know that some Groupaction employees gave $100,000 to the Parti Québécois, and that Groupaction received contracts from the Société des alcools du Québec and Télé-Québec. That is quite something for a party that claims to be clean.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is the Liberal tactic of trying to smear others, without any reason, just for the sake of it. What a fine Liberal tactic.

The following individuals are among those who received money: Luc Desbiens, from the office of the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development; Daniel Dezainde, press secretary for the Minister of the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec; Irène Marcheterre, director of communications in the office of the Minister of Transport.

How can the Minister of Transport—

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of the Environment is violating all the rules. I would ask you to call him to order. I will put my question after he shuts up.

[The Speaker]

The hon. President of the Treasury Board.

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, it is a little much to take a lecture from the member opposite on smears. That is all we have heard coming across the House on the unsubstantiated allegations of individuals.

The reality is that the Prime Minister takes the Gomery inquiry very seriously. We will look at all of this information and examine it. We have a process in place to deal with these issues and we will respond.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, out of all the ministerial staff involved and identified as having received dirty money, there is, among others, the Minister of Transport's director of communications.

How could the minister say, last year, in front of every camera, that this was a small parallel group, that it was not the core of the Liberal Party? His own director of communications was involved. How could he make such a statement?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

Order, please. There is plenty of room for that sort of exchange outside. Members wishing to continue debate may do so outside the chamber, not here. We are in question period now, not debating.

The hon. President of the Treasury Board.

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, it is remarkable how quickly people let go of the principles of fundamental justice. I would urge members not to rush to tarnish people who cannot defend themselves.

Federal-Provincial Relations

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, instead of discussing the fiscal imbalance responsibly with all of the provincial governments, the Prime Minister continues to make piecemeal changes in an effort to resolve a complex problem.

In the middle of the sponsorship scandal, in which tainted funds were used to subvert democracy, how can the Prime Minister justify once again his negotiating a single agreement, with Ontario, which looks much more like an attempt to buy votes than a way to resolve the fiscal imbalance once and for all?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, two processes are under way. First of all, there is a major revision of the equalization program which involves taking equalization payments in this country to the highest level ever in history and indexing them annually going forward into the future, plus an expert panel to review the details of the calculations. At the same time, the Prime Minister has indicated he is always willing to sit down with any premier who wishes to discuss specific issues that need resolution.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is there no one in the government who can reason with the Prime Minister and make him understand that his trying to buy votes with billions of dollars is irresponsible and makes him look all the more suspicious in the eyes of the public? Far from working to his credit, his behaviour will move him closer to the door in the May 18 confidence vote.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, when we are working with a province, whether it be the province of Ontario, the province of Quebec, or any other province in this country on issues such as immigration settlement, labour market development, tax collection consistency, meat inspection, education, learning and training, housing, infrastructure, cities, climate change, and child care, I do not think that is anywhere near buying votes. It is doing exactly what we promised to do when we went into the election last year.

The Economy

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, for years economists from both the right and the left have been decrying the government's dismal forecasting record. The IMF has been critical recently of such inaccurate forecasting.

People in this country have been denied a real debate about budget choices and about our capacity to invest in our provinces, our families and our environment. Given what has been happening lately, why should anyone believe Liberal forecasts?