Debates of Oct. 19th, 2006

Opposition motion—Economic and fiscal position

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member is quite right.

When the Conservative member stated earlier on that taxpayers want their money to be effectively managed, he was right. However, the Conservatives have taken an issue that is of real concern to our citizens and distorted it with the objective of making cuts to programs that serve the disadvantaged—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

The hon. member for Saint-Lambert.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to say that we support the motion of the Liberal Party which states:

That, in the opinion of the House, the government inherited the best economic and fiscal position of any incoming federal government and has not demonstrated the need, value or wisdom of its announced expenditure cuts which unfairly disadvantage the most vulnerable groups in Canadian society.

Why do we support this motion? For all the reasons given by my colleague from Joliette and also because we feel that this government has a $13 billion surplus to work with. It could have cut operating costs, as mentioned by the member for Joliette, rather than programs that affect citizens.

The Conservatives have made what are generally called ideological cuts, and it is not impugning their motives to say so. They target the disadvantaged and minority groups. Mrs. Thatcher taught us a lot in this regard. The Conservatives target programs intended to counterbalance the government. They refuse to consider possible savings at National Defence. I wonder why. The question must be asked. Why is it that there were no cuts to the Department of National Defence when it is one of the departments with the largest budgets, about $14.7 billion in 2005-06?

During the election campaign in January, we saw the Conservative government still slowly progressing like masked turtles. That is what I told the media at the time. The Conservatives had not yet revealed their true face, but now we know a little more about it.

With all these cuts, the government is stirring up a lot of discontent in Quebec. If our friends across the aisle are incapable of seeing this, all I can say is they are out of touch with reality in Quebec.

The values of the Conservative Party are not the values of Quebeckers. The Quebec nation is about solidarity in all areas of life. We know that.

As for the Conservative government I was saying that it is going after the disadvantaged and minority groups. I will provide a few examples, beginning with the elimination of the court challenges program. This program gave minorities a voice: linguistic minorities, advocacy groups on behalf of the disadvantaged, homosexual rights groups, and so forth. The court challenges program funded groups that challenged the positions taken by current members of this government. Was the cutting of this program not a bad sign for all the groups opposed to the ideology embraced by this government? That is the question.

There is also the reduced budget for women’s groups, about which my colleague spoke earlier, and cuts to the support for volunteer groups and literacy.

The Conservatives decided to eliminate the Canada volunteerism initiative that was not supposed to end until next March.

The question I want to ask is whether the government will invest in another volunteer action program in its next budget. Stakeholders are waiting for some sign, some hint. If not, another question arises: will the government decide then to transfer the entire file to the Department of Human Resources and Social Development?

The Conservatives have cut funding to the public diplomacy fund, a program that promoted the support of cultural exportation, such as international tours for dance and theatre groups. Once again, they have not missed an opportunity to worry the cultural community.

On the front page of this morning's Le Devoir, Stéphane Baillargeon has written an excellent article on the concerns of the cultural and artistic communities in Quebec. I urge all members to read the article, for it is full of information.

With the announcement of $11.8 million in cuts to the public diplomacy fund, dance and theatre groups are wondering how this will affect the funding of international tours.

This is what I asked the heritage minister recently: Will these cuts put an end to funding for international tours for theatre and dance groups from Quebec and Canada, yes or no? She said no. I am sorry to say, however, that these groups are concerned that this was merely lip service.

I now come to the museum sector, which is very important to us. This sector has been awaiting a new museum policy for 25 years, as well as a budget increase, but unfortunately, the Conservative government just cut 25% from funding for museums.

I would like to read the Conservative Party promises from the last election campaign. This was on December 16, 2005. The Canadian Museum Association received a number of responses to questions it had asked the Conservative Party.

Here is the first question:

Does the Conservative Party of Canada support the development of a new Canadian Museums Policy to replace the current policy that dates back to the 1970s?

Here is the Conservatives' response:

Yes, the Conservative Party of Canada supports the development of a new museums policy for Canada. Canadians want to see the country's rich heritage protected and preserved for this generation and for future generations. It is not acceptable that this policy has not been updated and that Canadian museums have been neglected by the federal Liberal government. A Conservative government looks forward to working with the Canadian Museums Association to develop a revitalized and renewed vision for Canada's museums.

Here is the second question:

Does the Conservative Party support the CMA's principal objectives for a new policy:

Preserve Canada's national heritage, including artifacts of key importance held in museums across Canada;

Support museums in their role as important economic engines in the revitalization of cities and communities;

Increase engagement of citizens, visitors, volunteers, and members by greater outreach to community groups and the general public

Stabilize the capacity of museums to achieve these objectives through multi-year funding—

I could go on, because the commitments were tangible. And the result is that the Conservatives have made a 25% cut.

The Conservatives made a commitment to revitalize and support the arts, but it was a verbal commitment. In conclusion, with this government, women, minorities and culture have become problems. This government prides itself on supporting the arts and culture scene. It talks ad nauseum about providing quality assistance for creators and for heritage, but assistance has to be more than lip service. It has to be tangible and real and take the form of actions and funding.

We in the Bloc Québécois work tirelessly to promote and support the arts and culture, which the government has abandoned. The government's action, which amounts to a chainsaw massacre, is embarrassing in every respect. This government never stops talking about culture, yet it is destroying culture throughout Quebec and Canada.

We in the Bloc Québécois question the incompetence, the deceptions, the arrogance and the deviance of this government, which regularly sicken Quebeckers. We demand that this government meet Quebec's expectations. In anticipation of our emancipation, we will always faithfully reflect the widely held visions of Quebeckers in this House.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I want to respond to the hon. member from the Bloc Québécois. I have two things to say to him.

First, our plan is a good plan. We have a budget for 2006-07 of $200 billion. This year our government has found $1 billion in savings. It is not unlike a Quebec family that spends $20,000 annually wanting to save $100 a year. Our government's plan is quite reasonable.

Second, the Bloc can promise the moon and talk and talk and talk since it will never be in power. It is not possible for the Bloc to form the government. It is quite easy for the Bloc to talk and criticize every plan since the Bloc does not have a chance to form the government.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc talks and talks. The Bloc is not capable of forming the government. That is something we are tired of hearing in this House. We are in a democracy and I believe it is proper to respect this game, this modern-day jousting.

There are nations where people stagnate under dictatorship and where people are in prison for speaking out against their government. The Bloc does not speak for the sake of talking. The Bloc talks and offers solutions.

I can list the issues the Bloc has become involved in to give you an indication, whether with the previous government or the current government. Without the support of the Bloc Québécois in some issues, I do not think this government would still be here. I am just saying this as an aside.

I take exception to the fact that the Bloc Québécois is being impugned in this way. It is a clear indication that they do not understand the reason for the Bloc Québécois' presence in this House.

The Bloc Québécois was sent here by Quebeckers. Nearly half the population of Quebec sent us here to represent them because they have lost faith in Canadian federalism. When this party or the Liberal Party realizes and accepts that, perhaps then we can engage in a sincere and respectable conversation.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, does the hon. member not find it rather interesting that the Liberals would bring forward this motion? When the Liberals were in government, they cut literally $25 billion out of spending in our country. It dramatically affected some of the most at risk and vulnerable of our citizens. The Liberals were responding to a huge deficit that the Brian Mulroney government had driven up.

Now we have a government that finds itself in a situation where it has a $13 billion surplus, mostly created on the backs of the poor and the most at risk by the previous government, which announced programs that were supposed to help, but it ended up not spending that money.

Does the member find the dialogue between the previous government and the current government interesting? Both do not seem to understand that the priority is to help communities and citizens participate and live with some dignity.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in response to the comment made by my colleague opposite—and it is unfortunate he is not a sovereignist, because I would gladly welcome him into the fold—I would say that we are not so far apart in our social, economic and political thinking.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, when I read the motion presented by the Liberals for today's opposition day, I thought it was a joke, that it could not be true. It is so shallow, so hollow, so gratuitous and so without purpose. When I realized it was a reality and this was the genuine intentions of the Liberals, all I could conclude was the Liberals, with this opposition day, were making a mockery out of Parliament. They have embarrassed this place for all of Canada.

If we look at the resolution, it is nothing more than a statement of self-congratulation and gratuitous remarks. It has no purpose, no specific recommendation and no action for Parliament to consider. Therefore, I do not know on what we are supposed to vote. I, along with my colleagues, certainly will not vote on a motion that congratulates the Liberals for bringing our country to its knees over a decade of poor economic and fiscal mismanagement and a decade of cuts that have hurt the ability of Canadians to contribute.

For the life of me I do not understand how the motion was allowed to be on the books and come forward. Surely, it is contrary to all the traditions of this place with respect to opposition day motions, and we are debating nothing. We are debating an empty statement of pure rhetoric, which is self-serving for the Liberals in this chamber.

It presents us with the unique combination of conceit and weakness, which has been so characteristic of the Liberals over this past decade and certainly over the last couple of years when their attitude, arrogance and sense that they were entitled to rule this place, no matter what voters thought, became so apparent.

First, I have no choice but to recommend that my colleagues vote against the motion. It would be ludicrous for us to support such an empty, gratuitous statement. Second, I have no choice but to tear apart the two parts to this resolution

The first part of the resolution suggests that the Liberals left the Conservatives the best economic and fiscal position of any incoming federal government, which is just nonsense, and I will proceed to prove that.

The second part critiques the current government for not demonstrating the need, value or wisdom of its announced expenditure cuts, implying that if the current government had justified the spending cuts, had given us some background, some evaluation, the $1 billion in cuts would have been justified, would have been be okay.

We cannot accept that position. We can accept nothing short of a resolution that calls for the reinstatement of these $1 billion cuts until such time as the government comes forward with an actual cost benefit analysis to show which programs were not producing results and were not contributing to the Canadian economy. So far we have not seen any evidence of that. The Conservative government has cut the lifeblood out of most communities, the very things that help communities help others, that help communities renew housing and community supports, that help give people the tools to access our economy, like literacy and numeracy and supports in socio-economic initiatives.

There is nothing to date, in any of the cuts announced by the Conservatives, that suggests there is any benefit to our Canadian economy, that there is any savings to be accrued, other than adding to our debt down the road and creating more and more difficulties for Canadians to participate.

Let me just go back to this nonsense about the goodness the Liberals have left this nation. I would remind members that over the course of the past 13 years, our country has ended up in a far worse position than we are today.

Let us go back to 1993 to 2006, to the fortunate year when the Liberals were, thankfully, defeated. During that period of time, workers' wages and salaries, as a percentage of GDP, declined steadily over those years, dropping from 54.3% to only 50%.

Let us look at some of the statistics. During this decade, the share of income for the top 1% of our population, those people who make over $150,000 a year, rose from 9% to 14%. Therefore, the Liberal government did a great job of boosting the already wealthy and catering to the corporate sector, but did nothing to help low and middle income Canadians. The bottom 40% of Canadians' share of national income actually dropped under the Liberals during this decade.

Let us look at the job situation. Under the Liberals, we saw our country move away from a society, which had the possibility of permanent well-paying jobs, where both men and women were treated equally, where people were able to combine work, family and leisure activities on a reasonable basis and had some quality of life. That was taken away by the Liberals. Most new jobs, under the Liberals, happened in terms of temporary employment, part time employment or self-employment. Instead of us moving toward a progressive civil society, where people could put their talents to use in full time meaningful jobs, get some benefits and security and be able to still participate fully in their family and in their community activities, the Liberal government took that away.

One out of ten manufacturing jobs in Canada has been lost since 2001. More than 200,000 jobs have been lost in the manufacturing sector. That is a blow to many communities in our country and a blow to our whole society.

One in seven Canadians works full time for less than $10 an hour. Women are two times as likely as men to work in low wage jobs.

The employment insurance, which was supposed to help workers, now only helps about 40% of unemployed workers instead of the 80%. That happened when the Liberals took over as the government in 1993. Instead, they chalked up an EI surplus of $50 billion, which has not been used to help unemployed workers. It is not being used to train workers. It is not being used. That is the Liberal legacy. While workers were struggling, while families were suffering, while people needed training to be able to access the new economy, the Liberals destroyed the future for many Canadians. I could go on.

When we look at the human aspect to fiscal and economic policy, which is a central part of any fiscal economic management and good government, we have to not simply look at the bottom line in terms of how much debt has been paid off and how much the tax breaks have been given corporate sector. We also have to look at the health and well-being of the workers who contribute so much to our economy and, in fact, grow the wealth in this country. Whether we are looking at the human aspect or the fundamentals in terms of good economic policy, the interest rate policy, the role of the Bank of Canada in trying to cut off growth every time the economy starts booming, all of this has to be traced back to Liberal inaction and incompetence over the last decade.

Finally, let us point to the ludicrously of the Liberals talking about cuts and criticizing the Conservative cuts. Members know we are opposed to the Conservative cuts. They hurt so many people in harmful ways. However, the Liberals were far worse. Do not forget that the Liberals were promising far bigger cuts in 2005 when they were still in office. In fact, for the two year period we are talking about, the Conservative cuts as a percentage of planned Liberal cuts is 25%.

Therefore, what the Conservatives are doing now is modest in comparison to what the Liberals were planning to do. In fact, they entrenched in the whole Treasury Board process the expenditure review, which would lead to significant cuts by the finance critic of the Liberal Party himself, none other than the person who brought forward the motion.

Let us just remember that the Liberal government over the years cut $25 million from provincial transfers for health and education, cancelled the Canada assistance plan and eliminated its support for social housing. In the 1996 budget, it cut over 45,000 public service jobs. It cut over half a million dollars in appropriations to the CBC. It allowed Canada's foreign aid to slip from 0.4% to 0.3%. It cut the money for core programs for women and cut the heck out of the very fabric of our country. It left us in a position today--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when I talk I like a big audience and, since the official opposition, the Liberal Party of Canada, brought this motion forward today, I hope some of them are listening to what some of the rest of us have to say.

If the Government of Canada did not conduct an annual expenditure review that would be cause for criticism by the people of Canada. Every organization should conduct an annual expenditure review. My wife and I do that in our household. We sit down and look at our household bills to see if there are places where we are spending money where it is not necessary. As a member of Parliament, at the end of the year my staff and I sit down and look at where we have spent our budget trying to serve the people in the riding as best we can and we reallocate resources by taking them out of one area and putting them into another.

When I look at the size of the budget of Canada, approximately $200 billion a year, and the number of dollars that are involved in this expenditure review, which is about $1 billion, that is about half of a percent. I appreciate that there will be people who will disagree with some of the decisions that were made and where the trimming took place, but for the Liberal Party or any other party to suggest that this is some large scale reduction of expenditures or that there are massive cuts to programs is untrue and it exaggerates the point.

We should also make the distinction between dollars that are spent actually delivering services to people who need those services and dollars that are spent supporting organizations that often turn around and use those dollars to lobby the government to get more resources.

Does the member not agree that the Government of Canada should do an annual expenditure review? Does she really think that changes less than 1% should be labelled as extreme?

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, there is a big difference between an honest expenditure review that does a genuine cost benefit analysis and impact study and respects the communities that have worked so hard to make a difference, and the kind of cuts we have seen with the Conservatives, and previously by the Liberals, that are based strictly on ideology, cuts that are based on a hatred or a dislike of certain groups in our society, whether we are talking about feminist organizations, community renewal corporations or literacy organizations, people who help others get the tools so they can participate fully.

The member says that it is less than 1% or 0.1% of the budget. My goodness, that $1 billion cut by the Conservative government will do more harm and create more debt down the road than anyone can imagine. When the Conservatives take away the tools that help people get a job and pay taxes, it is ludicrous and absolute stupidity and must be called to account.

We have not seen any kind of cost benefit analysis of government expenditures on a broad basis, especially in the area where corporations are able to benefit year in and year out with huge tax breaks, huge giveaways and huge loopholes and never have to account for the fact that the money is not being reinvested back in Canadian firms, in creating jobs and in growing the economy.

Even Don Drummond pointed out that it was an embarrassment to have this money go to corporations and not see it returned to this country. Instead, it is fleeing this country. It is not being put to use where it would make a difference, which would be a true cost benefit expenditure review. That would be showing that the government is sincere and willing to trim the fat.

When the government eliminates the literacy partners program in Manitoba so people do not have any place to call for help, that is not trimming the fat. It is not trimming the fat when the court challenges program is cut thereby hurting the Unemployed Help Centre in Manitoba, the very centre that helps workers get their feet back on the ground.

What kind of economic and social sense is that? What kind of compassion is that? There is no sense in the Conservative cuts, nor the Liberals' history of cuts.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to follow the member for Winnipeg North and her impassioned plea for the government to stop the cuts, to get back to its senses and to think about the communities and the people who will be affected very dramatically by every penny that is taken out of their budgets by way of these decisions.

I was pleased to move a motion in the standing committee on which I serve, human resources and social development, that would actually take a look at these cuts, particularly in that ministry. At the first meeting we had this past Tuesday, the most important question we asked the group that came in to talk to us about the impact was whether they had been consulted about these cuts. Members of the group said that there was no consultation, no warning and no conversation whatsoever regarding the impact on the people they serve or whether they would be able to handle this.

We still have not been able to find or to get from the government any vehicle template that it might have used to actually make these decisions.

Not even the former Conservative minister in the Mulroney government, Perrin Beatty, co-chair of the Canadian Labour and Business Centre that must close its doors after 22 years of operation, was able to see the minister or the Prime Minister regarding the cuts to the program that they are so obviously committed to and think is a good thing.

This centre is Canada's longest standing business and labour forum, the only national ongoing forum for partnership and dialogue on labour market and skills issues. The government is cutting that program at a time when the economy is rapidly changing and we are into a global reality. It cut the program and did not want to sit down and talk to the chair of that program about its impact.

Every time we ask a question here in the House or in committee, the Conservatives stand and say that they are spending millions of dollars on this, that and the other things, but the reality is that no matter what they say on how much money they claim they are spending, they are spending less. They are spending less on programs that affect very directly the most at risk and marginalized of our communities, our families. Most of these cuts are targeted at the most vulnerable people.

The government has cut $200 million out of the voluntary sector; $55 million out of youth employment, the summer employment programs; $45 million out of Canada Mortgage and Housing; $17 million out of the adult learning and literacy program; $17 million from workplace skills; $13 from the social development partnership; and $13 million from the social economic initiative. That is just a short list of a long list of programs that have been hit dramatically and which will feel very directly every penny that they lose.

However, it should not surprise us at all that the government is making these cuts. When the budget was announced last year by Mr. Flaherty, supported by his good friend from the Ontario legislature, Mr. Baird, sitting up in the gallery was Mr. Harris who was very proud to be delivering on a program that he had very effectively rolled out in Ontario.

If anyone is wondering what these cuts are about, or where they are going, or what is coming next, all they need do is look back at the record of that government in Ontario from 1995 to 2003.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I believe my colleague has inadvertently named members of this place who previously served in the Ontario government. I know he is an experienced legislator and would not have done so on purpose but I think that should be withdrawn.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

I will not comment on the point of order except to say that I agree.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I also agree and appreciate the challenge.

The two members of Parliament who serve in the capacity of the Minister of Finance and President of the Treasury Board and who served in similar capacities in the Ontario legislature are the architects of this cut program by the government. It should not surprise us that it is targeted at the most vulnerable of our citizens. The first thing those two members did when they were in the Ontario government in 1995 was to cut 21.6% out of the income of everybody in Ontario on social assistance. It was dramatic. How heartless and uncompassionate is that?

Let me read a letter from one of my constituents, a student in the literacy program for adults and a member of the board of directors of the Ontario Literacy Coalition which will feel the effect directly of these cuts to literacy. Michael Shaughnessy states:

With a $13 billion surplus, to me it is very stunning that the federal government would pick this time to cut $17.7 million from adult literacy funding right across Canada. I have seen first hand the change that comes over adult learners after being in a literacy program. It seems to build up their self-esteem, and bring out an inner fire in them which we should not allow the government to extinguish.

Results of the International Adult Literacy Survey (IALS)published by Statistics Canada tells us that 22% of adult Canadians have serious difficulty with reading, writing and math, and another 26% do not have the literacy skills we all need to participate fully in today's information-based society. In Ontario, 1.2 million adults do not have basic literacy skills and another 1.4 million are not able to read well enough to carry out daily tasks or to find and keep a job.

I was one of the 20% who can't read or write. I could not even read the word “there”, but I do have my grade 12 diploma. For whatever reason, I was pushed along and aside and was considered un-teachable. But through a literacy program, I am now at Ontario Literacy and Basic Skills Level 5 (the top adult basic literacy level). That is why I do admire people who have the inner fire to get up the courage to enroll in a literacy program. It is like climbing the biggest peak in Canada. Unlike most people who went to high school who could dream about going into college or university, I was not even able to have this dream. Although some people may fail once they are there, I didn't even have the chance to get up to bat and try to make it...

In a caring and just society, education is not a luxury;--

It is not a low hanging fruit. It is not fat to be trimmed.

--it is a right of all Canadians. This is why I am asking all of the 42% of Canadians who have literacy problems, and all other Canadians who do not have literacy challenges to stand up and say no to the cut back, and write a letter to your MP or the Prime Minister's office and say no to the cut back.

On Tuesday, the committee heard a very compelling presentation by members of the Canadian Labour Congress who came before us and said that these cuts amounted to an attempt to silence the voices of Canadians, especially those not yet able to exercise their full citizenship because of the barriers in their way. They talked about the impact on women, on immigrant groups, on workers of colour, on the disabled, on those who lack literacy skills, on people who the previous Liberal government said it would help and even at the last minute, a deathbed confession, made promises of money for this, that and the other thing.

We could not name one thing that was not in need of money in the month or two before the last election that the Liberals did not target money toward. Did that money get spent? No, it did not, which is the reason the government is now able to say that there is in fact some low hanging fruit. There is money out there, the money that was not spent by the previous Liberal government on very important programs which it has now determined were not necessary when I and my caucus know were in fact necessary.

As well, more money on top of that is necessary if we are going to support communities, families and individuals in being the best they can be, in being all that they can be, and it is necessary if we are going to support the voluntary and non-profit groups that support those efforts in communities and support their efforts to get justice served when in fact they are told they cannot have what they need.

Today I decry these cuts. I ask all hon. members in this place, particularly the Conservative members, to do everything in their power to respond to Michael and say no to these cuts.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his presentation and am glad to have the opportunity to ask a question. I need to make a small correction to the record. The current Minister of Finance and the President of the Treasury Board were members of the governing party in Ontario in 1995, but were not in fact members of that government, although I suspect both of them wish they had been at that time.

It is an interesting comparison, because the situation we had in Ontario in 1995 and the difficult decisions that had to be made were there as the result of five years of an NDP government in Ontario that had created a financial crisis. I believe my hon. colleague was a part of that government, so he more so than I would remember that time and the difficult decisions that need to be made when governing.

My question for my colleague is this. Given that he lived through that time when the NDP premier of Ontario was Bob Rae, does he not find it astounding, after the experience Ontario had, that it appears the Liberal Party is about to make Bob Rae its leader and potentially put Canada through the same thing?

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, let me respond to that question by saying what this member should know. In fact, this is the kind of misinformation or lack of information that the Conservatives put out there. Yes, in fact, we did govern in some of the most difficult economic times that this country had experienced in probably 30 or 40 years and actually, it has been said, since the Great Depression. We had to make some difficult decisions.

The member will remember the social contract and the price we paid for that in trying to manage the finances of the government of that day. We put in process programs during those five years that in fact would have played out much differently from what happened under the Conservative government, with the two ministers the member mentioned in that government who serve here now and who actually did serve in cabinet in that government.

What happened following 1995 was not that the deficit went down and the debt was paid. In fact, the deficit went up because the Conservative government of that time did exactly what the government is proposing to do here, which is to give massive tax breaks and make cuts in areas where it should not be making cuts. The Conservative government actually drove up the deficit and drove up the debt of Ontario, which is what the Conservatives will do with this country before they are finished.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Sault Ste. Marie for not only pointing out the staggering hypocrisy of the language in this particular motion but also for making the point that the Liberals are trying to have us believe some revisionist version of what went on. They are criticizing these cuts, which the NDP was the first to condemn, I believe. The Liberals would have us believe that theirs was a kinder, gentler government, when in actual fact the evidence will show that the former Liberal government was the most right-wing conservative government in the history of Canada. It was known for cutting, hacking and slashing every social program by which we define ourselves as Canadians, in the most ruthless and cruel way that can be imagined.

My colleague made the point quite well, I think, that some cuts simply do not heal, that these cuts hurt people. Some cuts still have not healed. In my riding, the poorest riding in Canada, we feel the effects still of the Liberal economic policy that used the EI system as a cash cow.

I want to ask my colleague if the same is true in his riding. The cutbacks to EI by the Liberal government alone took $20.8 million a year out of just my riding of Winnipeg Centre. That is like the payrolls of two huge industries, two huge pulp and paper mills, moving out of one's riding. That is what it is equal to. Members can imagine what that would do to an already vulnerable low income neighbourhood like mine. Does the hon. member's riding still bear the vestiges of the Liberal legacy of ruthless cutbacks and slashing of budgets?

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

The hon. member for Sault Ste. Marie will have half a minute for his reply.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is no question that we do, particularly now as we face the onslaught of the downturn in the forestry economy, some of it manipulated and helped along by the present government and its new agreement on softwood lumber.

I would like to talk for a second about the impact of the cuts made by the Liberals. I was in the NDP government in Ontario from 1990-95. We were dealing with the worst recession since the Great Depression and, not only that, we were dealing with a federal government that suddenly decided it was going to cut, over two or three years, some $25 billion out of the transfers to the provinces. We felt that very directly. We tried to manage those cuts so we would not dump on the next level of government, the municipalities, but as for the Conservative government of 1995, what I am saying here is to watch the pattern--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

I regret to tell the hon. member that his 30 seconds were up 30 seconds ago.

Resuming debate. The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to rise in support of the motion put forward by the hon. member for Markham—Unionville. I am also happy to share my time with the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour.

As is usual for anything proposed by the hon. member for Markham—Unionville, this motion makes great sense. Indeed, it is one which so many members wish to speak to because there are so many examples of how the government's cuts have adversely affected their communities. I contrast this with the rather partisan approach of the member for Winnipeg Centre, who, I can only suggest to the House, is still feeling the lash of his constituents for having put into power the Conservative government that is responsible for the cuts he is so upset about.

The fact is, thanks to Liberal budget after Liberal budget, the Conservatives inherited the best government balance sheet in the world. And what have they done with that good fortune? The Prime Minister and his government have cut programs for the most vulnerable citizens in our society. They have eliminated help for those most in need. They have cut off support for minorities. They have acted against equality for women. They have turned their backs on those without power, on those who dare to disagree with them and on those who try to assert their fundamental rights.

Gone are the literacy programs to help our fellow citizens who cannot read or write. OECD studies clearly show that people with high literacy skills and medium to high computer skills are five times as likely to have high incomes.

I would like to congratulate the hon. member for Sault Ste. Marie for his personal statement, so moving in the House, about how he overcame his own difficulty with respect to literacy. I am sorry he had to drift into a partisan rant at the end of it, but the fact of the matter is that he is right: literacy is fundamental to economic success in the 21st century, for individuals and for the country.

Yet the government has destroyed literacy funding and, in so doing, has destroyed hope for Canadian after Canadian while damaging our prosperity and productivity. These are cuts that are not just meanspirited; they are counterproductive, make no economic sense, and affect the prosperity of all Canadians.

Let us look at literacy programs for aboriginal peoples, which have been tossed on the scrap heap. Two weeks ago, I had the privilege of being in Nunavut and I spoke with women literacy volunteers. They work across Nunavut to ensure that the Inuit population has the power to lift themselves up, yet the Prime Minister has decided that he just does not care about them or their prospects.

As for reading and writing programs for immigrants and refugees, they are history too. And literacy help for those Canadians having trouble reading the instructions on their medicine or filling out a job application no longer exists.

It is a sad truth that there are people across Canada who have trouble reading and writing. These people want to help their children with their homework so they can have a better life. They want to be able to read the bus schedule. They want to learn how to use ATMs. In its wisdom, this government decided that this will not happen. It decided to save $18 million at the expense of these people.

Gone, too, are essential summer jobs for 25,000 Canadian students. We all have students in our ridings. I have them in my riding of Toronto Centre. They are hard-working, decent young people from across the riding who need that summer program to let them go to a trade school, community college or university.

These young people are stretched to the limit and their parents are stretched to the limit, and the Conservatives have cut them off from help. In so doing, they have destroyed the capacity of many worthy NGOs that have employed these young students to help with summer programs for the disadvantaged and vulnerable.

In my riding, that means programs for youth at Central Neighbourhood House, for the homeless at Toronto City Mission or the Yonge Street Mission, Epilepsy Toronto, the YWCA, the Heart and Stroke Foundation, Jessie's Centre for Teenagers, the Ontario Deaf Sports Association, the Soulpepper Theatre Company, the Toronto Kiwanis Boys and Girls Club, and education facilities at Dixon Hall.

That is just the beginning of a list. That just covers the surface. These are real losses for real people in social, economic and very serious human need.

The same is true of the meanspirited cuts to the museum assistance program. We are not talking about big national institutions here. We are talking about museums at the heart and soul of small communities in our country.

We are talking about the Wetaskiwin and District Heritage Museum in Alberta, or the Nanton air museum, where I went a year ago with the member of Parliament for Macleod and where we proudly dedicated the memorial to the brave pilots who flew for this country in World War II. I would like to know how the member for Macleod is going to explain to those hard-working constituents of his, who proudly created a truly great Canadian asset in their community, that all their hopes and all their hours of volunteer work for the future of their museum have been given the back of the hand by another Alberta member, their own Prime Minister.

Similar questions will be asked by those who worked so hard to create the Dawson City and MacBride museums in Yukon, the Chilliwack Museum, the Kamloops Art Gallery, the Cumberland Heritage Village Museum in eastern Ontario, the Mendel and MacKenzie Art Galleries in Saskatchewan, the Agricultural Historical Society of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the Shelburne museum on Nova Scotia's South Shore.

If complete, the list would contain most of the communities represented in the House. What an insult to the 350,000 Canadians who volunteer at museums every year. It is a back of the hand to tourism in our struggling cities and smaller towns. It is an insult to the history and the memory of the men and women who built this great country of ours.

We then look at the cuts in funding to programs to help women achieve equality. Just yesterday, we celebrated Persons Day in our country in celebration of the Famous Five, who in 1929 won the case declaring that Canadian women are entitled to the same rights and responsibilities as Canadian men. Equality for women? This is of no interest to the government.

And as for those who would try to assert their rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in our blessed country, the court challenges program is history too. Gone is the program that allowed visible minorities or gays and lesbians to assert their rights in the face of government indifference or hostility, a program that helped Sikhs achieve progress and the disabled push for equality. In cutting it, the government strikes a blow at them and at all in this country who believe in a fair and just society.

This program protected our minority language communities.

Franco-Ontarians, for example, have good reason to be disappointed in this government. The court challenges program enabled them to fight to save a hospital that is very important to the community: the Montfort hospital here in Ottawa.

Internationally, the Citizen Diplomacy Program made it possible for us to promote Canadian culture abroad by sending our artists to foreign countries. The budget for this program was only $25 million per year. The Conservatives chose to cut $11 million of that.

In the meantime, the United States, France, Great Britain and Italy, to name a few, each spend about a billion dollars a year on such programs. Why? Because those countries recognize that their international image has a direct impact on their ability to achieve their international goals and sell their products on foreign markets.

Canadians are well aware that the government plays a major role in enhancing Canada's image abroad. Our exporters regularly tell us that our country's image helps sell their products. This program also enabled our Canadian artists to promote our culture.

Speaking of thumbing its nose at culture, the government just refused to allocate funds to the Quebec film industry. This is a flourishing industry that promotes Quebec culture in Canada and abroad with the help of the Canadian government. It is unacceptable for the Prime Minister to think it is okay to cut this funding when such excellent films—perhaps everyone has seen Bon cop, bad cop—are being produced in Quebec.

It is the same for affordable housing assistance for the poor. It is the same for regional economic development for Atlantic Canada, northern Ontario and rural Quebec.

These actions undermine the very meaning of Canada. They undermine our notions of opportunity, compassion and fairness.

If people do not fit in with the Prime Minister's extreme notions of social conservatism, they are out of luck with this government. If people find themselves down on their luck or unable to fend for themselves, then it must be their own fault. If they dare to disagree with the Prime Minister or are not part of his electoral calculation, they do not deserve a helping hand from this government.

For our part, Liberals believe in a plan of hope, opportunity, fairness and achievement, a Canada that is a model to the world, a Canada we are all proud to call home, a Canada that embraces all our citizens, empowers all our citizens and unleashes the tremendous potential of each of us and all of us.

That is what this motion by the hon. member for Markham—Unionville is all about. That is why Liberals embrace it with such vigour and such passion.

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, because our questions quite rightly and necessarily have to be limited, I will try to do a brief preface to each of my questions and then just ask for a brief response. Even a yes or a no would do.

Would my hon. friend admit that in 1993-94 when the Liberals started their expenditure reduction program, one of the key components was a one-third reduction to health care, slashed, bang, gone overnight to all provinces? I was a member of a provincial government at the time so I watched, literally, the blood on the streets when that took place. There was the ongoing reduction for a number of years in national defence and the RCMP, and taxes were increased 67 times from 1994 to 2000, when in face of an election the Liberals were terrified and they did a low tax reduction. Will he first admit that that is how the Liberals did their tax reduction, mainly with the slashing of health care to all provinces?

For my other question I will just use one of the areas which my hon. friend has referred to and I will ask people to reflect on the validity of what he is saying in the other areas. He talked about literacy programming cuts. Will he admit that according to our budget, $81 million this year is going from this government to literacy programs? Will he also admit that not one single organization with any existing agreement in terms of literacy, not one is having its funding cut?

What we are reducing in the literacy program is the millions of dollars the Liberals used to spend on consultations, millions of dollars to their friends to tell us that if people learn how to read they will do better.

As my granddaughter would say, hello, we already knew that; we didn't have to waste money on that.

Will he just admit these things? Will he admit how they reduced theirs? Will he admit that not one single literacy organization in the country that is delivering programs is having--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one thing I will certainly admit is that it was with a very heavy heart in 1993 when the Liberal government came in that it had to deal with a $43 billion deficit created by the people across the floor who pretend to be fiscal conservatives and who pretended to the Canadian public that they were managing the economy properly. The contrast between a $43 billion deficit and a $10 billion surplus that they inherited from us is precisely the result of good economic management of this country, the return to prosperity and a common-sense approach.

Were cuts made? Yes. Were they regrettable? Yes, but there was a reason for it. It is clear and the reason is sitting on the seats of the hon. members opposite.

As for the cuts to literacy, I humbly request that the hon. member do what I did and go out and talk to people. Go up to Nunavut and ask the people there what is happening. There are volunteers up there who want to help people in their community who really have very serious problems. They are seeing those cuts. They are seeing the possibility of losing their money with the local college because it will not be able to fund them because there will not be the program funding that is necessary to keep themselves alive.

This is a real problem across the country. Let us not pretend it is not happening. There is $17 million out of the budget and we know exactly what impact it is going to have on literacy.