Debates of Oct. 18th, 2011

Bob Dechert Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, I certainly do agree with the member. I think we are seeing a pattern here, as I mentioned in my remarks a moment ago.

It is not just Yulia Tymoshenko who is being persecuted for participating in the democratic process in Ukraine. There are several others as well. There seems to be a pattern here, and that is why our Prime Minister wrote on October 14 to President Yanukovych and he:

....let him know that I am deeply concerned that the conduct of Tymoshenko's trial does not reflect accepted norms of due process or fairness. We all know that a vigorous political opposition and judicial independence are vital to building a democratic and prosperous Ukraine. Canada will support Ukraine whenever it moves towards freedom, democracy and justice.

However our foreign policy is rooted in principle and in the defence of freedom. As the member has pointed out, these other cases seem to fall against the principles of democracy and freedom, and we will oppose them as well.

Wladyslaw Lizon Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Mr. Chair, I would like to remind all my colleagues in this House that in the case of Ukraine, we are dealing with people who are not playing by the same rules as we are used to in democratic countries. These are people who are using the judicial system to get rid of political opponents, to get rid of the free press and to get rid of people who have different views. We have to realize that.

If we have to take decisive action, as a democratic country, we should not be afraid to take it. I would like my colleague to comment on this.

Bob Dechert Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, just a few moments ago the member for Mississauga East—Cooksville made a very impassioned speech here.

This is a gentleman who knows of what he speaks. This is a man who lived under Communist oppression in Poland and who came to Canada with his dreams of freedom and democracy. He told us this evening that the people of Ukraine will hear our words and that it will hearten them, embolden them to stand up for freedom in their country.

I just want to take this opportunity to thank him for those words. Those are words that I could not have said myself, not having lived under the system in which he once lived. I think that people across Canada should hear those words and realize that the things we are saying here in the House of Commons this evening and that all Canadians are saying about this terrible attack on democracy in Ukraine will bring some comfort to our friends in Ukraine. Canada will stand with them at this time and demand freedom, democracy and the rule of law in Ukraine.

Ed Komarnicki Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Mr. Chair, it is certainly a privilege and honour to speak with respect to this motion that expresses concern regarding the ongoing erosion of democracy in Ukraine, including the most recent politically motivated, arbitrary prosecution and conviction of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko by Ukrainian authorities. There is no question that this is a very important motion and debate taking place.

I had the opportunity to visit Ukraine and take part in the monitoring of elections. I was of the view that Ukraine had turned a corner and was well on its way with respect to democracy and justice.

I also count it an honour and a privilege to speak today because my grandfather, Nicolas, originated from the Ivano-Frankivs'k area in the southwestern part of Ukraine. He came here searching for democracy and freedom. It is something to be cherished for sure.

When we were there for the monitoring of the elections prior to 2010, it was impressed upon me that Ukraine had the opportunity to go forward. Ukraine had the opportunity to be an example of what can happen. When a government leads in a democracy, it means leading for the good of the people and not for the good of oneself. We can see that it had that potential.

One of the tenets of a democracy is the fact that one has to be able to lose in a fair and free democratic election. One cannot choose to silence opponents by placing them in jail, threatening them or targeting them. It just does not work that way.

Some of the fundamentals of democracy are the right to a fair trial, the right to be presumed innocent and the right to have a trial, so that those watching could say that not only was justice served but it was seen to be done. We cannot have the suspicion that follows a targeting of a number of individuals who were political leaders.

Yulia Tymoshenko was the leader of the largest opposition political party in the Verkhovna Rada. She was also the prime minister in 2005 and from 2007 to 2010. These are people who held public office and made decisions while in public office.

The Prime Minister stated in his address to the Canadian Ukrainian Congress:

...we know that a vigorous political opposition and judicial independence are vital to building a democratic and prosperous Ukraine.

Those are the two pillars that are very important in a democracy. We have a challenge to the political opposition using the tools of government and the tools of the judiciary. In fact, if it is the judiciary itself stifling that opposition, then we are on a backward path. It is something that should not be allowed to happen.

It was good that the Prime Minister wrote to President Yanukovych. He wanted to let him know that he was deeply concerned that the conduct of Tymoshenko's trial does not reflect the accepted norms of due process and fairness.

When we look at the sentence that was handed out, seven years, it is quite remarkable, given the upcoming parliamentary elections in 2012 and presidential elections in 2015. How can they be declared free and fair elections if the leaders of the two opposition parties, including the leader of the official opposition, are not able to participate? It is unthinkable.

However, this is only the tip of the iceberg. When we look at what happens to the freedom of the press, freedom of assembly and freedom of speech, we see they are all being stifled. When we look at what has happened to the political leaders in broad daylight, we see it is a symptom of something deeper that is taking place throughout society and that must not be allowed.

During the Orange Revolution we saw hope and aspiration to a great nationhood by the people who were there. That same hope needs to be rekindled. Although there has been a step or two backward, they must go forward. There were ideals of freedom and democracy that were expressed in the Orange Revolution, and I think this must go ahead.

I would say that what is important is the young people who were there, the impressionable people, those who have tasted democracy and freedom, they cannot go back. As I speak to them, they must not go back. They must go forward.

For those who are in positions of leadership or authority, it is not too late to rectify the wrong that has been done. It is not too late for those who have been sentenced to have those sentences changed under an appeal or otherwise so they can participate in an election. It is time to go forward, not backward.

Peter Goldring Edmonton East, AB

Mr. Chair, my colleague mentioned earlier that there was a culture of intimidation in some of the old style Soviet regimes.

I have to relate a story about the 2004 failed election that I was at where there was president-elect Yanukovych, the same person, and the supporting regime to support his election and to maintain the election. In the period of time that I was there, I was followed by the secret police. There was a pool of blood in my room to intimidate me. There were bowls of fruit to scare me, with the poisoning scares that were going on. Telephone calls were quitting in the middle of conversations. Telephone calls were going silent at one end. It was constant. Why? It was because I was reporting from Independence Square back to Canada, telling Canadians what the realities of the situation were there.

It was a culture of intimidation then and it looks as though this culture of intimidation is returning once again.

Ed Komarnicki Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Mr. Chair, it is obvious that the hon. member has had the opportunity to see what it can be like. He also was present to see the hopes and aspirations of the people. It is difficult to hold back those hopes and aspirations except by using tactics that revert back to the old days when people were suppressed, when people could not express themselves and when they could not enjoy the freedom to speak, to assemble and to make their thoughts known. However, they have tasted that freedom. They know what it is about and it would be wrong and perilous to try to revert back to the old system.

The people of Ukraine must be given the opportunity to go forward, to experience the benefits of democracy and experience what a true judicial system can be like where one can actually have charges that are not trumped up but charges that are based on fact, have a foundation and are presented in a fair way where one can defend oneself and be presumed innocent.

We look forward to actions being taken by the present authorities to fix what was wrong by doing what is right.

Leon Benoit Vegreville—Wainwright, AB

Mr. Chair, in the House of Commons, when we want to silence the opposition we do it through connecting better with the Canadian public. We do it through better debate in the House of Commons. We do it through having positions that are favoured by more people than the opposition. That is the way we do it here in a democratic country.

That is why, when we see what is happening in Ukraine and we see a former prime minister go through a completely bogus set of charges, trial and end up in jail, we know it is an extremely serious situation that is being faced. In fact, this situation is pivotal to the long-term future of Ukraine. It cannot just be forgotten. If this action that has been taken is not reversed, I do not see, when it comes to the European Union, the United States and Canada, where we can just back off and pretend it did not happen. We believe in democracy. We just cannot do that or we fail the people of Ukraine and we fail our democratic principles.

How important does the member think this situation is? What kind of implications could there be, and probably will be, if these bogus charges, these arrests, of not only the former prime minister, are not dealt with in a way that is more befitting a democracy? What could the possible long-term implications be for Ukraine?

Ed Komarnicki Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and we will certainly be watching for your signal.

This is a very serious matter. It is a matter that, if the course is not changed, will work to the detriment of the existing leadership and certainly to the Ukrainian people. The people need to be reassured. Their trust needs to be regained. They need to see some progressive steps taken that will not cause them to revert to where they were, but to go forward. I think the aspirations of the young people especially and Ukrainians in general is that they not be repressed any further.

I would suggest that this course needs to be reversed and, by putting pressure on various levels by various people, this can yet be changed.

Alex Atamanenko British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

Mr. Chair, just as many Canadians, and, I would suspect, everyone in the House, I am deeply concerned about the politically motivated persecution of Ukrainian opposition members, including the former prime minister, Yulia Tymoshenko.

We heard about hope in the Orange Revolution of 2004, as was mentioned here a number of times, by Yulia Tymoshenko and Viktor Yushchenko, who were here. We heard the message of hope and I, being partly of Ukrainian descent, was very happy and pleased that finally Ukraine was having a chance to step into the community of world nations as a true and equal partner.

Then, in 2010, the last presidential election was narrowly won by Viktor Yanukovych.

I was in Ukraine very briefly this summer. I spoke to family members and others and there seems to be a sense of discouragement in the country, especially with the taking of power by Yanukovych.

In doing some research, I found an article in The Guardian that illustrates what is going on. What is going on is that a level of corruption has permeated that society for many years. The journalist stated:

Back in 2004, Yanukovych had been caught, embarrassingly, trying to fix the last presidential poll.

The hon. member spoke about his experience being there during the election.

The journalist went on to say that just before the 2010 election he had dinner with some aides to Yanukovych who tried to convince him that Yanukovych was a democrat and a passionate European who believed that Ukraine's geopolitical destiny lay with the European Union, et cetera. He further stated:

Eighteen months later things look rather different. The decision by a Kiev court today to jail Tymoshenko for seven years for abuse of office over a controversial 2009 gas deal with Russia is an unambiguous signal. It says that Yanukovych does not really care what the EU thinks about him. It also confirms that Yanukovych's critics have been saying for some time that under his leadership the country is sliding towards Russian-style “managed democracy” and autocratic rule.

The article went on to state:

Since taking power, Yanukovych has rapidly reversed the fragile democratic gains of the Orange Revolution.

We must remember that it was fragile, it was new.

He has put a squeeze on the country's independent media, with TV now in the hands of a bunch of pro-regime oligarchs. Nosy opposition journalists — such as the investigative reporter Vasyl Klymentyev — have disappeared. In parliament, Yanukovych's Party of the Regions has, using dubious means, achieved a majority. And politically motivated prosecutions have been brought against Tymoshenko and other senior members of her bloc....

There are rumours that following her conviction Yanukovych, having proved his point, will look for some kind of deal. One version is that the charges against her will be “decriminalised”; another that she will be released on payment of a large fine...

But what is clear is that the case was designed to nobble Tymoshenko and to cripple the pro-western, anti-Yanukovych forces she represents.

She is now unable to participate in Ukraine's next two elections: parliamentary ones in 2012, and the next presidential election in 2015. That, presumably, was the idea. Thousands of her supporters took to the streets of Kiev today, protesting noisily against Yanukovych's heavy-handed tactics, reminiscent of Ukraine's backroom politics a decade ago.

The trial bears comparison with that of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the Russian oligarch who fell out with Vladimir Putin.

We are seeing a pattern.

In some of the research I found, it appears that there is a desire among opposition parties to decriminalize parts of the criminal code that allowed this conviction of ex-prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko. However, there is no agreement by them as to how this should be done. The leader, Ivan Kirilenko of the Batkivshchyna Party, wants the bill to be re-examined at second reading. If this were to happen, President Yanukovych could then tell European politicians in Brussels that the question of opposition prosecution has been resolved. We need to remember that he is going to Brussels soon and he would like to put on a good face.

Nikolai Martynenko, leader of the NU-NS party, supports Kirilenko and demands that the bill be examined. However, the majority, which is the Party of Regions, and its leader, Alexander Efremov, did not come out with a definite position. In fact he said it would set a precedent, so he is using political spin. Remember that this is Yanukovych's party. This is obviously very disturbing.

A website for an organization called the Eastern Partnership Community is an analytical portal where ideas about what is happening are debated. A journalist by the name of Valery Kalnysh who is chief of the political desk at the Ukrainian edition of the daily Kommersant alludes to the fact that she may be guilty, but he says he doubts whether it was necessary to put her on trial and drag her through the courts for such a slip-up, if in fact, there was one.

He says that the case is clear. He says that the current government is not interested in showing that Ukraine is a state of law, and that Yanukovych is not sending the message that the hand of justice will reach every criminal regardless of how highly they are placed. His conclusion is that the Tymoshenko case is a show trial against the opposition. He also says he could mention about 30 people from Tymoshenko's circle who are in custody now, or have the prosecutor's office breathing down their necks. Meanwhile, there is only one similar case under way concerning a politician from the Party of Regions, which is the majority.

It appears as we look within at what is happening that this is a pattern not just affecting the former prime minister, but an attempt to silence the opposition especially coming up to the next election.

Yulia Mostova, chief editor of the weekly Dzerkalo Tyzhnya, says that the Tymoshenko case is the manifestation of a Ukrainian national tradition, the idea that every ruling class has followed this principle of persecuting the opposition since 1991. She says the attack on Yulia Tymoshenko is nothing new, that everyone who follows Ukrainian politics has been expecting it. It does not come as a surprise to those who have been watching this closely, including journalists. She also says that the scale of the actions which have been brought against the former head of government is disproportionate to the offences committed, in her opinion.

What should we do? A number of us have received recommendations from the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. It proposes a strategy for our government. Any action by the Government of Canada must not result in the isolation of Ukraine. We cannot do that. In regard to the trade agreement, we should make it very clear that we would not support an agreement if the human rights of a former prime minister are violated. However, we should not isolate the country.

We should refocus CIDA's strategy. According to the congress, it should focus on supporting Ukrainian NGOs that establish and strengthen political and civic organizations, safeguard elections and promote citizen participation, openness and accountability in government.

Also we should be calling for support for independent media. A number of members have outlined the persecution of the media and that reporters have disappeared. It reminds me of a book I read by a Russian journalist just before she was killed in Moscow for exposing the Putin government and all it was up to.

We have a role to play as parliamentarians and as the Government of Canada to support our Prime Minister in calling for swift action on this case. Other than that, we should not isolate Ukraine. We have to work with our brothers and sisters in Ukraine to finally bring a democratic government to their country.

Anne-Marie Day Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his speech.

The NDP is very concerned about the political persecution and arrest of members of the Ukrainian opposition. The members of the NDP are asking the government to ensure that human rights are respected in Ukraine.

Can the hon. member tell us how this situation is affecting Canadians of Ukrainian descent?

Alex Atamanenko British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for her question. As a Canadian citizen of Ukrainian and Russian origin, like many Ukrainians here in Canada, I have family there. We have very close relationships with friends and family and it affects us because we are in contact with them. As I said earlier, what is happening there is a bit discouraging. The power is now in the hands of a president who does not represent all of Ukraine but, rather just the eastern region, which is under the influence of Russia. We see it in the country's parliament. Members who come from that region cannot even speak Ukrainian. They give their speeches in Russian. We are monitoring the situation very closely and should continue to do so. We should support Ukraine's citizens so that one day they will be able to have the same rights that we enjoy here in Canada.

Wladyslaw Lizon Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON

Mr. Chair, I strongly believe that we Canadians, we parliamentarians on both sides of the House, and I am really sad that there are no members on the Liberal side here, owe--

The Deputy Chair Barry Devolin

Order. I would remind all members that we do not comment on who is or is not in the chamber during debate.

The hon. member for Mississauga East—Cooksville.