Stan Dromisky

[Divorce Act, March 13th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to address this House regarding Bill C-232, an act to amend the Divorce Act proposed by the hon. member for Mission-Coquitlam.

This bill attempts to address the needs of many concerned, frustrated and in many cases emotionally distraught grandparents who wish to have, according to their perceptions, a more sustainable and meaningful relationship with their grandchildren.

This bill contains two main amendments to the Divorce Act of 1986. The first aim is to eliminate the need for grandparents to obtain leave of the court when making a formal application for access or custody of their grandchildren. The second area of emphasis is within the granting of rights to grandparents to

make inquiries and to be given information on the health, education and welfare of the child or children.

Many people feel that these two amendments to the Divorce Act are long overdue and that many problems would be resolved. The problems to which I refer are those created by divorces, separations, the early death of one of the spouses or any other cause that results in grandparents being denied access to their grandchildren. In any one of these stressful situations the suffering of the child may be more devastating over a lengthy period of time than that endured by any given adult involved.

In many cases the grandparents, provided they are loving, nurturing types, can provide a sense of stability, security and comfort for the bewildered children. This is exactly what happens in many cases.

However, as the number of failed marriages increases, so do the number of court custody cases. My colleague from Hamilton Mountain has already informed us that in 1990 approximately 34,000 children were involved in divorce cases in which the courts made custody decisions. Many more go through varying degrees of distress as custodial care is decided mutually outside the courts.

In my community I have anxious grandparents who have no confirmed knowledge of the whereabouts of their grandchildren. This happens when a spouse passes away and the remaining nurturing parent moves to another community. It is also a common occurrence in separation cases in which the custodial parent moves away from grandparents. Such situations should not exist.

In most cases the court may order the custodial person to notify any person granted access to the child of a change of address at least 30 days before the change. There may be many reasons for strained relationships between parent and grandparent that are child centred. Often a dominant grandparent may incessantly try to impose his or her value system, customs, behavioural codes, et cetera, on the grandchild. This results in a pattern of ongoing confrontation between the adults with the suffering child squeezed between them.

In all such cases the child is the victim no matter how honourable the adult intentions may be. Although there are many factors causing the aforementioned disturbing situation, and even though we are aware of the potential harm to the children concerned, we must not endorse knee-jerk legislation that fails to address the issue in a rational and thoughtful manner.

It is important to note that presently grandparents are not by any means prevented from obtaining court orders that give them access to their grandchildren. Existing legislation pertaining to the access of grandparents contained in the Divorce Act, 1986, states in subsection 16(1):

A court of competent jurisdiction may on application by either or both spouses or by any other person make an order respecting the custody of or the access to any or all children of the marriage.

Subsection (3) states:

A person other than a spouse may not make an application under section 1 or 2 without leave of the court.

The intention of the amendments is an attempt to formally recognize a grandparent's legal right to access. Such a right without some screening process would result in a flood of custody and access disputes and wealthier lawyers.

Supporters of the amendments should be aware of the limitations on what a court order can accomplish and what the law can do to enforce it. It has already been stated that a court order cannot order people to change their attitudes, feelings, or how they relate to one another. Certain personality types will always be in conflict with each other because of certain personality traits and characteristics. In reality attempts to enforce an access order often lead to more conflict and litigation.

It is paramount to keep in mind that all legitimate and credible claims for access or custody have and will continue to have access to the courts, providing they are credible in nature. In this context a credible or legitimate case refers to claims wherein a close relationship between the kids and the grandparents existed for a significant period of time and a truly serious dispute exists between the grandparents and the spouse in custody of the children.

Presently every claim must undergo a screening process to ensure its legitimacy prior to gaining admission to the courts. The provision ensures that unnecessary and unwarranted litigation is avoided, thus saving Canadians vast amounts of money.

We also need the check to ensure that grandparents who are overly intrusive and controlling do not interfere unduly with the parental responsibility of the parents in question. Opening the door for harassment of parents will not benefit children in any way, shape or form.

Another important caveat pertains to the second major proposal in Bill C-232 whereby private information regarding the children is granted to those who have been awarded access. If it becomes a reality, we would have created a very unfair scenario, one in which grandparents from within divorced families would have access to confidential information while grandparents of intact families would not be granted the privilege.

When grandparents strongly believe the child is being neglected or abused there are other avenues of proper and acceptable action available in Canada. For example, family service centres, the Children Aid Society or the police can be asked to assist in a process of protecting the child's welfare.

As a grandparent I am truly blessed for my wife and I have unconditional access to the loving relationship of four wonderful grandchildren. We can only imagine the pain that some grandparents must endure who have been denied access to their grandchildren.

In our case our oldest daughter is divorced. With open arms, we welcomed her and her three children to live with us. The joy of witnessing each unfolding stage of development is indescribable. The meaning of family continually evolves as three generations share the solving of problems, resources and time and do our best in respecting and honouring each other's needs.

The amendments presented in Bill C-232 are directionally correct. I bring to the attention of colleagues the case of the death of a parent or parents, parental abuses, and even personality conflict between parents and grandparents. The rights of grandparents are governed by provincial laws that can vary widely.

In British Columbia grandparents can apply for access under the family relations act. Alberta has no legal recourse for excluded grandparents. Quebec and only Quebec has enshrined the rights of grandparents in family law since 1981.

The use of courts is a lengthy and very costly process. It is obvious that provincial and federal governments must co-operatively harmonize family laws and the Divorce Act to bring grandparents into a loving relationship with their grandchildren.

For the sake of all those concerned, may co-operative effort result in positive directives as quickly as possible thus avoiding unnecessary costly litigation and unwarranted intrusion into the lives of parents, grandparents and grandchildren.

[Nordic World Ski Championships, March 2nd, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I inform this House that for the first time in history the Nordic World Ski Championships will take place in our country in Thunder Bay, Ontario from March 9 to 19.

Picturesque Thunder Bay and its hospitable residents will be host to over 40 nations for this 11-day sporting event, including over 800 skiers, coaches and trainers, over 500 international media, over 200 officials and 50,000 spectators. An expected audience of over 400 million viewers will observe the action by satellite, including 31 hours of prime time coverage in Europe.

This spectacular event has been made possible because of the dedication of thousands of volunteers from the area and the continuous support of the Minister of Canadian Heritage and his staff.

[Cuba, February 20th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to address this House regarding M-281, a motion condemning the U.S. embargo on Cuba proposed by the hon. member for Burnaby-Kingsway. It is a pleasure for me to be in a position to second that motion.

The red book states that "Canadians want their national government to play a more active, independent, internationalist role in this world of change. They do not want Canadian foreign policy to be determined solely through special personal relationships between world leaders. Canadians want a national govern-

ment that takes pride in its tolerance, openness and common sense, and that reflects those values in its foreign policy".

As a member of the Canada-Cuba Interparliamentary Friendship Group, I acknowledge openly my pride in the tolerance Canadians reveal in their attempts to understand the differences between and among the nations of the world. There is also our use of common sense in defying the pressures of special interest groups as we encourage, develop, nurture and enhance our relationship with Cuba and other peaceful societies.

It is interesting to note that shortly after the freedom fighter Fidel Castro overthrew the diabolical regime of Batista, the majority of ambassadorial representatives left the island. Recognizing and doing business with the new Government of Cuba were the governments of Mexico and Canada. As a result these countries were permitted to operate from their original embassies and continue to do so to this very day.

Since the revolution, Canada's relationship with Cuba has continued to strengthen even though the Cuban government had to turn to the U.S.S.R. for substantial support. As American influence in other countries intensified and strengthened, so did its network of trade embargoes.

Due to the diminishing supply of goods, it was necessary for the Cubans to introduce rationing early in the 1960s. This practice continues to this very day.

Although the U.S. trade embargo has always deterred economic development in Cuba, it was not until the removal of the annual $5 billion Soviet aid package five years ago that the embargo began to have a dynamic impact on the lives of the Cuban people. There is a shortage of everything and there is no guarantee that the goods will appear in the near future within this tightly controlled economy. There is a serious shortage of instructional materials for the educational system. Certain medical practices must be curtailed or cancelled due to the absence of medical supplies. As people lose hope, despair overcomes and the crime rate rises.

Priorities are established and strictly adhered to in this fight for survival. As wars fan the spirit of nationalism, so grows the spirit of common good against common evil.

Although it may be classified as a third world country, as a member of the Community of Nations, Cuba has never abdicated its responsibility toward others. A good example of that is Chernobyl. Over 35,000 victims of Chernobyl have been brought to Cuba for treatment in one of the most advanced centres for the treatment of radiation. Over 13,000 of that number were children, and with the children came the mothers and fathers during the treatment period.

Three years ago the American dollar economy was introduced in order to glean as many American dollars as possible for foreign trade. This was achieved chiefly through the introduction and enhancement of the tourist business.

The free market economy is beginning to blossom in Cuba. We heard recently that privatization of land is possible. Companies can purchase the land. There are other options available as well. Investment is increasing. Canadians are investing.

The situation was further aggravated two years ago with the introduction of the Cuban Democracy Act, also known as the Torricelli act by the U.S. Congress. The main thrust of the act was that of extending the embargo to American subsidiaries abroad. This of course applied to Canadian based U.S. multinationals.

Lifting the embargo now would allow Cuban exports to the U.S. and permit foreign investment in Cuba, having a substantial effect on the Cuban economy.

With the election of the new Congress in the States, however, it appears that the hard line of Cuba may continue. This is unfortunate because the present embargo leads the U.S. down a very lonely path.

For three years the UN has voted overwhelmingly to end the embargo, most recently in 1994. The result was a lopsided vote of 101 for and 2 against with 48 abstentions.

Furthermore, Canada, Spain, Britain, Sweden, Germany, Italy and others are now expanding their links with Cuba. We were very fortunate in our visit to Cuba to meet quite a few representatives from these countries. They were business people who were in various stages of negotiating deals with the Cuban government.

Obviously absent from the negotiating tables were American representatives. As well, private groups across the U.S. have been sending more and more humanitarian aid intentionally challenging official American policy.

The cold war has been over now for five years. Cuba's situation in the present global context is radically different than during the 1950s and 1960s. Cuba is broke, crippled but not down. It is of no threat whatsoever to anybody and there exists no danger in lifting the trade ban.

However, there are those who still refuse to dispose of their 1950 style cold war mentality. It is time to stop trying to destroy Fidel Castro by destroying the people of Cuba. The main problem of American policy toward Cuba is that it is made in Miami, not Washington. Cuban expatriates are extremely powerful and are deemed crucial to ensuring whether the state of Florida swings in favour of the government during the presidential elections. As a result, they hold considerable clout in shaping American foreign policy vis-à-vis Cuba.

In any nation or society where within a special interest group we find that the truest form of love is self-love, where greed is the major source of energy, where avarice and gluttony are esteemed to be honourable personal goals, we find that others in

their relationship with these groups usually are identified as victims in that relationship.

I find that the embargo restrictions imposed on Cuba and other societies are the results of such special interest forces. This embargo which is a blatant example of central authorities catering to special interest, provincially minded political forces, is being maintained without regard for the suffering borne by the innocent.

Our government's position with regard to Cuban foreign policy is very clear. Our ambassador to the United Nations has indicated that we need to engage with Cuba, not isolate it, in order to achieve our goals.

Also, our Ministry of Foreign Affairs and our Secretary of State for Latin America have clearly indicated the need to end Cuban isolation. I applaud our government in this regard.

However, as concerned Canadians we must increase our efforts to have this embargo curtailed and promote practices based on sound, realistic, humanitarian values and inter-relationships.

The U.S. has lifted its embargo on Vietnam, so why not Cuba? Sure enough the time is right for a change of attitude. Let us work together to encourage Mr. Clinton to repeal the three-decade old embargo on all non-military items.

The proponents of this embargo must be made aware of the fact and never forget that as man's relationship with his fellow man is positively enhanced, so is man's relationship with his spiritual leader or God.

[Pulp And Paper Industry, February 9th, 1995]

Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I note the recent announcement that the Avenor newsprint mill in Thunder Bay is planning to install a treatment system which will allow the mill to become completely effluent free.

This project represents the first mill scale development under a memorandum of understanding signed in March 1994 by the federal government and the Pulp and Paper Research Institute of Canada.

Two successful pilot tests of the process to be used have been completed and a secondary treatment system for the mill will be installed in 1995. The complete, totally effluent free process should be in place by late 1996.

The initiative shown by the pulp and paper industry and companies like Avenor is clear confirmation of the industry's commitment to the principles of environmental responsibility and sustainable development.

[Immigration Act, February 6th, 1995]

Madam Speaker, it certainly is my pleasure to continue this debate in the House today regarding Bill C-44, an act to amend the Immigration and Citizenship Act.

Amendments have taken place in part because of public opinion, because of a need to address some abuses of our immigration system by criminals. Although the incidence of abuse is minimal, this bill will reduce the possibility for abuse.

I would like to spend some time on that process and on the statement I made regarding the use of public opinion. In this House public opinion emerges, is debated and is transformed into rules and regulations governing the behaviour and actions of the people, institutions, companies and so forth in this country. It is a very time consuming and costly process in a democratic society. If it were a dictatorial society decisions could be made instantaneously depending upon the whims and fancies of the dictator.

So far all the rhetoric we have received from the Reform Party clearly indicates they have the absolute solutions to all the major problems that exist in the field of immigrants and refugees. It is a very strong and dictatorial approach to problem solving.

Today the member for Calgary Northeast made two statements that all those who are in this House and those who made deliberations in the past have laughed in the faces of Canadians. He clearly indicated that Canada is an international laughing stock. The deliberations in this House of Commons both past and present at no time have deserved that type of abuse from the member for Calgary Northeast.

I feel very strongly that the member should apologize not only to all the present members of the House of Commons but also to those of the past hundred years who devoted their time and energy to solving the problems in our society. Above all he should openly apologize to the people in the riding he represents because the House of Commons is not laughing in their faces. They are not laughing in the faces of all Canadians. They are demanding an apology from the member for the type of ridicule imposed upon members of Parliament who represented his riding in years gone by and who devoted their time and energy to make this a much better country. That is the kind of dedication we would like to see in this Chamber. That is what a member of Parliament of honour and nobility would portray in this House as he tries to enhance the lives of all Canadians.

Yes, we do have problems in this country, but we will continue to search in a very positive and sincere manner for solutions to these problems. Problems emerge as people provide us with their opinions. Through studies and the multitude of strategies that we use in our communities the information flows and we have to make a list of priorities and deal with them using the resources we have, whether they be human or financial. The time factor is very important here in what should be dealt with immediately and what should be dealt with in the future. Long range and short range planning are critical as far as the deliberations of the members of the House of Commons are concerned.

One problem we have that has been mentioned by members across is the problem of selection, the problem of screening prior to a refugee or an immigrant being accepted into this country. What actually takes place beyond the shores of this country when an individual puts in a claim to be accepted as a refugee or an immigrant?

Contrary to what has already been presented by members of the Reform Party, for the viewing public as well as for members of the House of Commons I would like to clearly stipulate the process all potential immigrants and refugees must go through.

All immigrants to Canada are screened in depth by officers for security and criminal concerns. Visitors are checked against Canadian indices and followed up if there are previous adverse records. Visitor applicants from high risk countries which may pose security or criminal concerns are subject to additional screening in Ottawa. There is a mandatory delay before which a visa may be issued.

Contrary to what has already been presented by the Reform Party I would like to point out to all listeners that immigrant applicants abroad are requested for criminal purposes to produce a police clearance where such is available and reliable. In certain cases a secondary verification of this document takes place. The RCMP also provides support in verifying criminal record information in related matters.

Another point is these officers in selected countries abroad also receive and gather information on selected individuals who are suspected of war crimes or crimes against humanity. This information is used to prevent admission of such undesirables.

I have just given a portion of the strategies used in order to glean and to screen the applicants who wish to come to this country.

Most of the people who came to this country in the past and are here now are very good Canadians. They have chosen very wisely. They have chosen to come to the best country in the world. The vast majority of them turn out to be the very best citizens we have. They are extremely hard workers, dedicated and conscientious, constantly supporting the family unit, constantly honouring and abiding by those values that Canadians in general adhere to and support. They are not an army of criminals. They are not an army of potential thieves. They are not an army of potential deceivers.

We have to be very careful how we address this problem and how we accept the data that is being presented by those opponents to the immigration acts, not only on Bill C-44 which is being presented, but on all those acts that have been presented and passed in this House of Commons in generations gone by.

In support of what I have been saying, I would like to quote from the Toronto Star of November 6, 1994 where in a flippant manner an individual from the Reform Party has misquoted and used numbers and figures to serve a certain purpose. The purpose is suspect, the purpose is questionable. It states: ``Reform MP Jim Silye has insisted that RCMP documents prove a total of 1,935 people were accepted as refugees without any prior screening. Only later did police discover they had criminal records''.

However all indications from the RCMP, the documentation from immigration officials are that the statement is 100 per cent totally inaccurate. However it could have an impact in tainting the perceptions and tainting the opinions and attitudes of the people who had first heard it.

What we did find out is that the number was used when that number of people were being processed and had been fingerprinted. We have to be very careful how we use figures that appear in the documents and in public.

In my riding individuals approached me and were very concerned about the criminal element. The criminal element has been receiving a tremendous amount of attention in the media in the past few months. Every time a society, no matter whether it be Canadian or any other society in the world, goes through some negative process, a decline in productivity, in employment and so forth, in other words there is a recession or a depression, we will find without fail that immigration policies will be constantly attacked.

Every time it happened in our society there was a scapegoat that took a tremendous amount of abuse and a great deal of unhappiness was generated in certain communities because people did not take the time to understand and be compassionate. They listened to the kind of rhetoric that we are getting from the Reform Party that does nothing but incite fear in the minds of individuals wondering what is going on and what the Canadian government is doing and so forth. They are frightened. They are afraid for their jobs and so forth.

I could go on a great deal continuing with this debate but unfortunately time is running out.

[Softwood Lumber Industry, December 15th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, this question is for the Minister for International Trade.

For several months Canadian lumber companies have been waiting for the United States to begin repaying the bulk of softwood lumber duties collected on Canadian exports. Can the minister tell this House when Canadian companies will begin receiving repayment of these funds?

[Unemployment Insurance, November 30th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

In northwestern Ontario companies frequently lay off employees due to seasonal and climatic factors. Through no fault of their own affected employees end up having to claim unemployment insurance frequently.

What is being done to ensure that this type of unemployment insurance claimant is not unfairly affected by the proposed UI reforms?

[Environment, November 28th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to inform the House today that the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment, the hon. member for Hamilton East, has announced that she will chair a meeting of Ministers of the Environment from the G-7 nations. It will take place in Hamilton in April 1995.

The meeting will provide a forum for environment ministers from the world's most industrialized countries to discuss common priorities and to work together to solve common problems. The government is convinced that the twin goals of a healthy environment and economy must be pursued at the same time. By inviting G-7 environment ministers and representatives to come to Hamilton, we want to work toward ensuring that the most industrialized countries in the world are moving their combined gross national product of over $20 trillion toward sustainable development for the future of all our citizens.

[Social Security Program, November 21st, 1994]

But somewhat less.

However, the member across the way recognized the importance of the red book this government has been using for guidance, a bible as one might call it.

This publication is the result of the efforts and contributions of tens of thousands of people over a two year period. It is a beautiful example that for the first time in the history of this country the democratic process was put into operation prior to an election over a very lengthy period of time. It produced an enlightened document and provides us with the guidance we so require in order to guide this country out of the turmoil it is presently in.

I would like to point out, as the member for Lincoln has pointed out, that the democratic process we have been using is very time consuming. It is true. If this was a dictatorial system, we would have an answer immediately. Because we adhere to basic, democratic principles, we will always listen to the people for guidance. That is exactly what we have been doing with the document pertaining to our social network and social services.

As a result, from coast to coast, a multitude of strategies have been put into operation. We are, as our eloquent speaker has already pointed out, receiving the type of guidance that is required to be sure that no one is suffering because of drastic changes in financial support or human resources or any kind of policy whatsoever.

[Social Security Program, November 21st, 1994]

Madam Speaker, I was most impressed with the delivery and the content of the message given by the hon. member for Lincoln, as well as the hon. member across the way from Edmonton Southwest.