Beryl Gaffney

[Petitions, December 9th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I have three sets of petitions to present.

The first one deals with the Young Offenders Act. The 44 petitioners ask that Parliament review and revise our laws concerning young offenders by empowering the courts to prosecute and punish young law breakers who are terrorizing society.

[Committees Of The House, December 8th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the fourth report of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration on Bill C-44, an act to amend the Immigration Act and the Citizenship Act and to make a consequential amendment to the Customs Act, with amendments.

[Violence Against Women, December 6th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State for the Status of Women.

It has been five years since 14 women, all student engineers, died at l'École polytechnique in Montreal. It has been four years since the all-party report on violence against women was tabled in this House of Commons.

Since none of the report recommendations have been implemented to date, could the minister tell this House when we might see action on the proposals contained in the document?

[Violence Against Women, December 2nd, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the House the member for London West was asking a very serious question of the Minister of Justice about violence against women and I quote: "Most of the violence women experience is in their homes and at the hands of men they know. What measures is the minister taking to protect women from violence?"

A male member from the Reform Party clearly shouted out: "Give them .32s," a shameful display of disrespect-

[Points Of Order, December 1st, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, during question period a very serious question was being put to the Minister of Justice with regard to violence against women and particularly about the number of women who die violently at the hands of their partners. This question is something that most members of this House take very seriously.

A member opposite from the Reform Party shouted out in the middle of the question "give them .32s". That is a very serious violation-

[Points Of Order, December 1st, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, during question period when a very serious question was being put to the Minister of Justice on violence against women and the type of violence that women are suffering, mainly at the hands of-

[Child Support, November 29th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

I applaud the minister's statement of last week that he would overhaul the laws governing child support in divorce cases. My question for the minister is how? How does he ensure the needs of children are met? How will his plans ensure fairness and equity between parents and, most important, when?

[Divorce Act, November 25th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to Bill C-232, an act to amend the Divorce Act which is the granting of access to or custody of a child to a grandparent proposed by my colleague, the member for Mission-Coquitlam.

It is especially important to note, as she has mentioned in her comment, that I am standing in support of this bill. One of the nice things that can happen in this House is that members from different parties can agree on an issue when it is relevant to all Canadians. It is particularly relevant in this International Year of the Family that we are discussing this important relationship between grandparents and grandchildren. More important, we are talking about protecting that relationship.

I am a grandparent. As we all know grandparents can and do play an important role in the psychological and social development of grandchildren. They provide an additional source of love, affection, support and understanding, all of which serve to enhance the child's self esteem and confidence.

Grandparents serve as mentors and as teachers to their grandchildren, giving them the benefit of years of experience and a sense of their roots that cannot be obtained from any other source.

Especially important is the relationship between grandparents and grandchildren when families dissolve and separate. Children are the innocent parties of a marriage breakup. They are the ones who are least capable of coping or understanding the problems that divorce creates. As a result, their disrupted lives and broken hearts need healing. They need someone who can hold them together in this very complicated and stressful time.

Grandparents do play an integral role in this process of healing. Grandparents give a real sense of security and continuity. They provide a sense of being wanted and loved. A grandparent's love is unconditional.

Despite the positive role that grandparents play in the lives of their grandchildren prior to the family breakup, during separation and after the divorce they often do not have access to these vulnerable young people. As a grandmother it is very difficult for me to understand not having access to my wonderful grandchildren.

They are sometimes denied the right to visit or to have contact with their grandchildren. Grandparents rights organizations across Canada have thousands of documented cases where grandparents have been obstructed from contacting their grandchildren.

I recall a case in Toronto in which a woman lost contact with her seven year old grandson when her former daughter-in-law refused to take her phone calls or allow her any visitation rights. After considerable attempts to contact the mother in order to work out some kind of visitation, the grandparent was charged with phone harassment and thrown in jail, locked up with the criminals.

Yesterday I received a letter from a grandmother in my riding of Nepean relaying her anguish to me over her inability to see her young grandson. I would like to quote from her letter. She says: "Because of a pending divorce I am having difficulty seeing my grandson and this is a cause of constant pain in our family. We waited 11 years for a grandchild. Much of the joy of this wondrous event is now tarnished as we have no right to access. Denying or making it difficult for us to visit with our little guy runs contrary to most people's idea of family. A child has two families and deserves to know them both well. To know he is treasured, to have pride and love from both sides of the family is a birthright".

I could go on and on with testimonials from grandparents across the country fighting for the right to see and speak to their grandchildren. There are many.

On October 5, 1994, I presented over 3,000 signatures in this House of Commons seeking a remedy to this problem. Just yesterday I received another 802 signatures. In many of these cases it is a personal tragedy for the grandparents. More important, it is a personal tragedy for the grandchildren of immense proportions that will probably affect them for the rest of their lives.

There are a number of organizations across Canada that are working very diligently to help grandparents who are experiencing this situation. I would like to take this opportunity to mention the organizations I have been working with. I cannot mention all of the people, but I see some here in the gallery today, although I know I am not supposed to mention that. They include GRAND, Florence Knight of the Canadian Grandparents' Rights Association, Liliane George of the Grandparents Requesting Access and Dignity and Madeleine Bremner of the Grandparents Right of Wholesomeness Through Heritage.

I congratulate them and all of the many people who have worked so hard in this regard. All of these people have done a tremendous amount of work. I congratulate all of you.

In Canada federal legislation states that grandparents have no legal access to grandchildren. That is sad. If a grandparent wants to see one of their grandsons or granddaughters who for example is living with a former daughter-in-law they may have to go to court unless there is an agreement made with the divorcing parent.

This process can be terribly expensive and time consuming. It pits grandparents against an aggressive and adversarial court system. This is not conducive to the maintenance of harmonious relationships.

Many countries in the world recognize the unique relationships between grandparents and grandchildren. In most cases they have granted either through legislation or through jurisprudence that parents may not without serious cause place obstacles to relations between the child and his or her grandparents.

Since 1980 the Quebec civil code has stated that "in no case may the father or the mother, without serious cause, place obstacles to personal relationships between child and grandparents. Failing agreement between the parties, the legalities of the relations are settled by the court".

This recognizes that the personal ties between the grandparent and the grandchild must not be interpreted as an intrusion in the life of the custodial parents, but as an opportunity for the child to maintain a link with his or her ancestry and cultural heritage as well as an opportunity to maintain that unique relationship with his or her grandparent.

The amendments to the Divorce Act proposed by Bill C-232, and my colleague has joined me on this side of the House, would serve to complement this section of the civil code on grandparents.

Bill C-232 recognizes the federal government's role in ensuring grandparents' access to grandchildren by amending the Divorce Act to recognize them as a distinct category of third persons who may apply for access to a child without requiring leave of the court.

The Divorce Act would also provide a presumption that this relationship is in the best interests of the child and that this relationship should therefore not be disturbed unless it can be demonstrated to a court that it is not in the best interest of the child for the grandparents to have access to this grandchild. My colleague mentioned that in her comments.

Upon seeking legal advice with regard to my bill, which is similar to this Bill C-232, there is a clause in my bill as well as in hers that causes me concern. It was lines 10 through 17 which reads: "Unless the court orders otherwise, a spouse or grandparent who is granted access to a child of the marriage has the right to make inquiries and to be given information as to the health, education and welfare of that child".

There is concern with this proposal because this type of information is private and normally only available to parents in normal marriage situations. If this amendment were included in the Divorce Act the effect may be that grandparents of the children of divorced parents could have rights to receive health and educational information that grandparents of children in an intact family do not have.

While I wholeheartedly support the principles laid out in the bill and I will support it, I will seek to amend clause 1 through the justice committee's review. I would amend it by possibly deleting lines 10 to 17. First and foremost, and I must say this quite categorically, I will be supporting this bill and will work to ensure that it reaches final approval in this House of Commons.

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of this bill. The relationship that exists between grandparents and grandchildren is unique. During these times of rapid social change, this bond provides a sense of continuity and hope in the lives of our young people. When obstacles are placed in the way of this relationship the results can be devastating for both grandparents and grandchildren.

I call on all my colleagues in this House to support Bill C-232 to amend the Divorce Act, to protect the rights of grandparents to have access to their grandchildren.

I am delighted to stand here today in support of Bill C-232 and I would hope that all my colleagues would do the same.

[Lester B. Pearson Act, November 18th, 1994]

What about Lucy Maud Montgomery?

[Social Security Program, November 18th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Matapédia-Matane for his question.

I hope in mentioning my children that I did not create a wrong impression with the member for Matapédia-Matane because that was not the intent of my mentioning them.

I was making a comparison of young people coming out of university, high school or college a few years ago and obtaining a job and today. If they had a certificate or diploma from a university it was almost a guarantee that they could get a job. It was much easier. That is gone. It is no longer in effect. Young people graduating today who might have a masters or PhD still have to spend two years looking for a job. The situation has changed.

My children were raised in a very fortunate time in the history of Canada, They were able to access a job immediately. They were fortunate they did not have to go into the UI system and that money was able to stay there for those who needed it. It was not necessary for them to participate in a government program that was there to benefit those who could not find work.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the people who live in an environment or in a territory of Canada, such as the member lives, where their work is seasonal and it is very difficult for them to find work for 12 months of the year.

These are the types of reforms we are talking about in the human resources development program. They are specifically to deal with the people who live in the member's region, and in the Atlantic region or in the northern part of Canada where work is seasonal.

This is part of the consultation process. They will be consulting with the people in Quebec and asking how this program suits its needs. That is a major portion of the consultation program and is what is so important. We are not just saying that what is suitable for my riding of Nepean, Ontario is suitable for the member's riding in the province of Quebec. Every riding is different and that is what is very unique about Canada. We are very unique not only in each province but as we move from region to region. This is what the program of reforms is trying to address, again through the consultation process.

Some students will not be able to afford to go to university if the tuition rates are raised. As Mr. Axworthy said on the steps of Parliament Hill the other day, he is not putting less money into education, he is putting more money into education. He is trying to ensure that students who do not have a university in their town-as my children did, as students in the member's area who have to travel to Rimouski to go to university-that funds are in place so they can go. The students of wealthy families should have a responsibility to support those in less wealthy families who are from less wealthy regions.

I firmly believe we are headed in the right direction. Obviously the consultation process is going to prove us wrong if we are wrong or prove us right if we are right. We are there and we are very much prepared to listen.

I thank you very much, deputy, for your two very good questions.