Brian Masse

[Supply, June 12th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see the Canadian Alliance join the debate about urban infrastructure in municipalities. It is very good and helpful to discuss this more and more in the House.

My questions deal with some of the problems that I think we have. Even though there could be agreements with all the provinces, there is a timing issue. What would the Alliance do about that? There is also the issue of some provinces signing agreements and others that do not. What do we do about those circumstances?

We see for the Province of Ontario new infrastructure dollars that might be opened up under a new window that is proposed in the motion. However the motion does not deal with the actual revenue stream that is then clawed back. We have seen that in the national child care benefit plan, for example. As well, I would like to know what the Alliance would do about the difficulty of the fluctuating funds, given that prices of gasoline would differ year to year in terms of the revenue available?

Those are things I would like to hear addressed, as well as some of the concerns about the motion. I would like the hon. member to touch upon those, if he could.

[Supply, June 12th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, what would $50,000 buy for the member's municipality or any other municipality? That is what it works out to in terms of the government's plan.

The comments of the member for Churchill were about the fact that the plan actually provides less funding over the 10 years as they ramp down other programs.

[Supply, June 12th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I agree that it needs to be municipally driven. In fact it is imperative. That is part of the process to unravel the programs.

I disagree with the parliamentary secretary though. I think the member for LaSalle—Émard, the former finance minister, is very much married to the motion.

The motion by the Alliance is really about johnny-come-lately, but really it is Johnny never comes. The money will never get there because of the issues we have with the provincial governments in the way that it is set out.

That is one of the difficulties we have about accepting it. It comes in a way that really will not see projects happen. It keeps municipalities away from the table. It keeps them as a junior level of government, and that is wrong.

Right now 80% of Canadians live in large urban settings and 50% live in five major urban areas. That is very important to recognize. The country has a challenge to ensure that those large areas have the proper support for municipalities on national issues. As well the smaller rural municipalities deal with special circumstances and we must ensure their viability and long term significance.

I was recently on the northern Ontario trade mission. The rural municipalities face very special and distinct challenges. They may not even benefit from this because of the situations they are in, and that will be a major problem.

[Supply, June 12th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise to speak to municipal issues again. It is always a good debate. I believe the subject has come up a number of times and we have had a good chance to review some of the things that have happened. We also have had a chance to talk about the future of Canada, and we know there are so many different problems related to municipalities.

Municipalities have been at the top of the agenda for many years, the past few in particular, and there has been little or not enough action taken to bring products out so people see their cities being cleaned up. People need to feel confident that major infrastructure problems are taken seriously and that solutions to the problems are found and accomplished.

The New Democratic Party has concerns with the text of the motion.The member for LaSalle—Émard espoused it recently. It does not lead to the empowerment of municipalities. We think it is important to ensure that they will get the proper supports and funding.

The concern in particular is the way it relates to the provinces and the fact that we have no guarantee that the money will even hit the ground. We have seen that with the infrastructure program for Ontario and other provinces where the actual programs, dollars and partnerships have taken a long time to unroll. As well it leaves out the municipalities from part of the debate in the sense that they will not have a voice at the table, which is really important. They need to have the opportunity to participate in an empowered way. If they do not, they will be subjected to the means and tools of the provinces.

One example that comes to mind is the problem related to the disbursement of funds in Ontario. It is important to note that we support greater funds and access to those funds to municipalities, including revenues from the gasoline tax. However we have a problem with the motion. There are a couple of issues of which we have taken note.

The national child benefit plan that the federal government introduced was paltry but at least it was it got off the ground to help children and ensure that poverty would be addressed. Tragically the province of Ontario clawed it back from many citizens. There are no guarantees that we will not see that happen again. There is some discussion about that in terms of the way the motion is worded, but it does not guarantee that will not happen.

The other issue I experienced as a councillor in Windsor, Ontario, was municipalities wanted long term stable funding to ensure that revenues would be there. That is important, because municipalities have to decide about roads, bridges, water treatment facilities and a number of projects which are large ticket items.

We heard a discussion about the Confederation Bridge and how that required the coming together of the province and the federal government. A large project like that is something very specific and significant. However when we consider other municipalities, whether they be small urban or rural municipalities or larger cities where they have long term projects which require multi-year funding, the motion does not guarantee that there will be long term funds.

We could have fluctuating gas prices, for example, that would change the revenue streams. They also could affect what products and what types of projects municipalities would want to unroll, such as a major piece of infrastructure. If we look at some of the development required, like sewer capacity expansion as well as road development, water and waste treatment facilities, we get into large significant amounts of money. All those things become very complicated if we do not have the actual stable base. Once again, when we get into fluctuation, it creates some problems for the municipalities. It also affects their credit rating and that lack of stability will be played out.

Our municipal government had a good bond rating because the revenue sources we were drawing upon provided some degree of confidence for that stability. Without that stability, the bond rating is affected, which means the municipality pays more interest on a debt which in turn incurs more costs.

These are some of the problems we have with the motion. To be quite frank, the reason the member for LaSalle—Émard can support this, at least in his statements in public, and why we disagree with the Alliance on this is it does not guarantee that municipalities will get money. That is a strategy and one of the reasons why the member for LaSalle—Émard spoke about it at the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.

All we would have to see was some type of wrangling with provincial governments and the dollars would not reach their intended projects. That delay is a revenue stream for the government. We have seen what it has done with some of those funds. I believe some have not been allocated properly, and that has been a problem.

There is another issue and that is the issue of municipalities having to negotiate with the provinces. If we have a system where regional governments or individual municipalities do not have a voice, some will opt into this and others will opt out, which could create the problem of different prices at the pump.

For example, in Windsor, Ontario gasoline prices sometimes dictate whether people come and go across the border. I would hate to see one province sign on to something like this and another decide not to because it wanted to use it as a marketing resource to attract customers or whatever. We have seen the lobbying on these issues. Even if there is an intent by two provinces to sign, this may create an economic imbalance. If the system is removed, companies on either side of the border will have different prices. This will also create some competition issues.

The NDP are calling for no more micromanagement of these funds. We trust municipalities to choose their own priorities. We are talking about sending clearer goals and setting clearer targets for federal infrastructure transfers. Emphasis must be placed on accountability. These are things that come through consultation with municipalities, and our party has been doing that.

It is important to note that this empowerment will create good governance in local municipalities. People will feel confident because they will have a say in this. Municipal planning includes official plans. Official plans means that municipalities reach out to their businesses, to citizens, groups, organizations, and visit improvement areas. They are part of a group that creates an official plan and sets priorities. We believe the government should be encouraging participation in that format. That will empower municipalities and make them feel good about participating in a meaningful way.

I should note that I will be splitting my time with the member for Churchill, Mr. Speaker, who will be adding some good comments and will be addressing some of the important rural issues as well.

Many of our cities and downtowns need some revitalization. That is important for both small and large municipalities. Affordable housing should be available. We know for a fact that in the province of Ontario we have not seen that because of the downloading on municipalities. They do not want the government program because it does not provide enough support and that is unfortunate because affordable housing affects many Canadians. It is also a factor in creating some of the poverty because of the lack of sustainability.

My party also emphasizes transit. In signing on to Kyoto, we believe transit is a way to create stronger cities and a way to achieve other national goals, and Kyoto has a national goal. The government should be given credit for signing on to Kyoto even though it is late with the plan, as we heard in committee this week. At least it is signed and there will be some sources of revenue dedicated toward that plan. We are looking forward to seeing more details unravel over the summer.

In summary, I believe we need to get more finances to municipalities. However we do not agree with the way it would be done under this motion. It would create complications. Cities and municipalities would not receive the sources they need. It would also be done in an imbalanced way because of the proposed regionalism.

[Supply, June 12th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to hear the conflict that the government has on this. The member for LaSalle—Émard is supporting this and is married to the Alliance motion. Similarly, we are seeing conflicts where the parliamentary secretary talked about the fact that it is a provincial responsibility, being the municipalities, but at the same time he cannot abrogate responsibility to them. He cannot have it both ways but he is trying to do so.

In the last budget we saw tax relief for things like coal, which is causing greenhouse gases. There were a number of different strategies that the government went through with Kyoto to try to reduce it. At the same time it did not provide tax relief for urban transit. That is something the municipalities have been clamouring for. I want to ask the hon. member's opinion about that. Why one and not the other?

[Supply, June 12th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, hearing the government's position on this is very disturbing to say the least. It is ignoring its responsibility and it is also not calculating the other downloading that is happening.

Has the province of Quebec, similar to Ontario, been under the siege of massive funding cuts at the same time as the government is usurping other taxes and surpluses? Has it faced the same problem which has made difficult infrastructure problems because of the downloading on the municipal and provincial governments?

[Supply, June 12th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I found those comments interesting. This is a very important debate for Canadian municipalities. It is important for us in the New Democratic Party because Jack Layton is the immediate past president of the FCM.

What was left out from the discussion, which is kind of interesting, is that the Federation of Canadian Municipalities has now indicated a $57 billion deficit in infrastructure spending. The federation and many municipal leaders ascribe the government's recent infrastructure plan as doomsday for municipalities. Even in today's paper the mayor of Ottawa is identifying once again the downloading that has happened.

I understand why the government will be opposed to this motion. It is because of the complexity it would create with the provinces. The fact that it will not get the actual funds to municipalities is one of the concerns I have. At the same time the government is not providing the resources. It talks about the $30 billion that it has invested, but we do not see it on our city streets and we do not see it being outlayed in major projects for which we need the investment.

My question to the hon. member is whether or not he feels the current infrastructure allocation of the last budget is sufficient for Canadian municipalities? Even the finance minister said it was a down payment, admitting that it was so bad.

I must say the former finance minister and the current finance minister, when they met with the FCM, were more like they were auditioning for the movie Dumb and Dumber with their infrastructure programs and suggestions because they were not listening to the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and municipal leaders.

My question is quite direct. Is that enough for municipalities? Why are they not getting the support when it is clear the voices are coming from there? When will the government act? We will see another construction season, whether it be for roads, sewers or what not, evaporate before us. We will have to wait another year for very urgent needs for our communities for which municipal leaders are clambering.

[Public Safety, June 11th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, when this government announced the four page Windsor-Detroit gateway action plan, it left public safety in the dust and holding a time bomb. Approximately 9,000 hazardous material trucks per year illegally cross this border breaking U.S. and Canadian laws. Despite the security risk, the industry and finance minister do not seem to care.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Why is the government so intent on breaking U.S. laws and why is it so intent on turning the Detroit River into another love canal?

[Pension Act, June 3rd, 2003]

Madam Speaker, it is my privilege, on behalf of the New Democratic Party, to throw our support behind this beneficial change. We believe members of the RCMP play a significant role in contributing to Canadian society. This pension issue could be classified by some as housekeeping or just some type of modern modification, but in reality it is about building confidence and showing that we can do some small things that go a long way.

Members of the RCMP are very important to my constituency. They are the instant recognition for what a Canadian is and Canadian symbolism, showing confidence not only in a government but also demonstrating the pride that we have out there in a very overt way. A good place to look at that is in Windsor where we have so many different cultures and groups of new people coming to get their citizenship. One of the things that we always have is a member from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police at the ceremony. The constable is usually someone that is very personable and very involved with the actual ceremony itself, making a point to sign any autograph, to shake hands, to be part of photos and to say a few words of comfort as well as a congratulatory message. That is important because it exudes confidence in a nation and a confidence that we have which needs to be backed up. This pension addition is a minor modification, in a sense, but at the same time shows that we need to be doing the right things for them.

There are so many other different issues that we think about when we think about members of the RCMP. It is not just the colours of their uniform and the very overt way that we see their presence, whether it be on a horse or in a parade and those types of things, it is the work they do out in the field on a day to day basis. Once again, improving their actual conditions and their confidence in the government will only help that.

In our community and others, they represent the first line of defence in many ways for what is happening at our borders, the people who are needed to respond to more international matters. In our city, where we have a municipal force and a provincial force as well, the Mounties have a different stature than those organizations because they represent the nation. When we have issues they are certainly there providing another level of confidence that sits well with our other supports, be it those other organizations I mentioned, or our firefighters and other first responders that are so important.

Sometimes we take these things for granted because we have these traditions and we know we can always rely on them. Sometimes we forget to do the regular things that are necessary to ensure their long term viability. That is what the bill would do. It would ensure another piece of a larger puzzle and we will have it to pass on.

That is one of the reasons that we support this change. It is something that, once again, is going to show that there is a longstanding commitment behind the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. More important, the Mounties will improve their ability to feel confident in the work setting.

We have been debating most of the morning and over the last few days the working conditions of public servants. We know from the union's response that there are some concerns about Bill C-25 and their working conditions that are going to be enacted and the difficulty that they are going to face. That is the exact opposite from what this is, and that is unfortunate.

We have two situations here. In Bill C-25 we have some regressive actions that are being taken against those workers and the conditions in which they are going to have to live, but what we have here is something which will be of benefit to the RCMP. We think the way to go is to improve the morale of Canadians who are employed through government tax dollars.

In the last 10 years, far too many times there have been cases where those people have tended to be attacked by different individuals and organizations, and that is not right.

There certainly is an opportunity here to do more of what this recommendation says and with the changes that will happen. I hope the government learns something from this and applies it to Bill C-25. I hope it learns that it can do some of these things that sometimes are described as housekeeping but that actually do improve morale, that do improve the quality of service and that give security for those men and women who are serving this country, and their families, who also have to pay some price for being sometimes on the front line of public services. This is overdue for the RCMP and something that we in the New Democratic Party support.

[Public Service Modernization Act, June 3rd, 2003]

Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask a question of the member from the Bloc who I know has been very active on this case file. The Bloc has put over 120 amendments because Bill C-25 is so deficient with a number of different working relationship issues that it will make the services more difficult for people being employed by the federal government.

This should be an opportunity to create a bill that will improve morale and increase the efficiency of the workers. The problems, as outlined by the member, will lead to more difficult times I believe.

There are a couple of things the government could have done to fix things. One was the amendment by the member from the New Democratic Party, the member for Winnipeg Centre, on whistleblowing. We believe is a very important issue. We have seen the scandals that have plagued the government for the last few years, the waste and other different problems. The government is spending a tonne of money on the RCMP right now to investigate these matters, which costs the taxpayers.

We were hoping to get some type of amendment to the bill to provide for whistleblowing. I will quickly read the three major parts to it. The Auditor General would be involved when a wrongful act or omission is:

(a) an offence against an Act of Parliament or legislature of a province or any instrument issued under the authority of any such Act;

(b) likely to cause a significant waste of public money;

(c) likely to endanger the public health or safety of the environment...

It goes on further to explain how whistleblowers would be protected so they would be assured that they would not lose their jobs, or would not be intimidated, or would not lose promotion, all those different things. It would save hopefully a lot of the problems which we have had in the past.

I know the hon. member has a number of different amendments from his party that were put forth, many of them that could actually have made this a good piece of legislation. It has not happened.

This is an amendment we had, and I would like to hear his remarks about it.