Bill C-284 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act (Canada access grants)

This enactment amends the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act to add provisions respecting the availability of Canada access grants to students with permanent disabilities and students from low-income families, and repeals similar provisions set out in the Canada Student Financial Assistance Regulations. The availability of grants for low-income students is extended from the first year of study to all years.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Chairman, it is very appropriate that we are starting off with this question because at last Tuesday's sitting, Mr. Brown voiced his concerns about section 14. If references to the regulations were not included in Bill C-284, two regulatory provisions would be excluded de facto, resulting in a loss of rights not only in Quebec but in other provinces as well in so far as the withdrawal clause is concerned.

Meanwhile, we have done some research with the help, naturally, of departmental officials. They provided us with the information to complete our assessment of the matter. We now know that the concerns expressed by Mr. Brown last Tuesday are very real and must therefore be taken into consideration. We thought about moving an amendment. In order for it to be admissible and useful, it would have to apply to section 14 of the act. The problem here—and the clerk can either confirm and refute our contention—is that Bill C-284 does not affect section 14. Therefore we cannot amend this provision. We came to the conclusion that an amendment would be ruled out of order.

At this point, I have two things to say on behalf of my party. We still feel that the aim of this bill is laudable as well as desirable. However, the wording has the opposite affect, not only for Quebec but for the provinces in general. For that very reason, we would be compelled to vote against it if it is not amended.

Because we consider this bill to be a laudable initiative, I would like to propose to my colleagues on this committee that, in a spirit of constructive cooperation, we spend a little time considering whether the committee would like to bring in some amendments. If so, we need to look at how we could do this while at the same time honouring our procedural obligations.

[Luc Leduc, Senior Counsel and Group Head, Legal Services, Department of Human Resources and Social Development]

Mr. Chair, I'll take the question. I'm with the Department of Justice. I just have to say that I can't provide legal advice to the committee, but I am pleased to provide my comprehension of the bill and the effect on the transfer payments.

The way Bill C-284 operates, there would no longer be the possibility of provinces opting out and getting compensation. It's a very technical reason, because the act presently lists all of the various programs from which provinces can opt out. It's very specific in section 14 of the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act. Right now, these particular programs are listed as regulations made under paragraph 15(p). That's a general enabling authority to make these particular programs or subventions. Bill C-284 takes the regulations made under paragraph 15(p), repeals them, and then enshrines them in the legislation as section 14, I think. By doing so, these new programs, or the programs brought into the legislation, are no longer listed in section 14 and cannot be used technically for the opting out formula. It's as simple as that. It's just a question of a cross-reference not having been made.

The net result is that clearly the amounts of money--and the officials can speak--for the province of Quebec for that particular program...they have one going right now where they're getting the transfer payments, but it would no longer operate. And if they made a program for low-income families in the future, they couldn't get the transfer payments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Do I have unanimous consent to defer Mr. Savage's motion?

No, never mind. I don't think I'll go there.

The scheduling is okay, we've dealt with the motion, so now let us get into clause-by-clause.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, November 22, 2006, Bill C-284, An Act to amend the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act (Canada access grants), we will now look at going clause by clause.

I'll take a list here. Mr. Brown, Mr. Lessard, and then Madame Savoie.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

We can go back and forth in terms of the cuts to the CHST that happened in the 1990s. I think Mr. Chong actually laid it out pretty fairly that in fact the government had to deal with those cuts; when they dealt with the cuts, they then reinvested. I disagree a little bit with him because the millennium scholarships came about then, and we invested in learning bonds and things like that, but there was unquestionably some work on the tax side. I do believe that direct investment in needs-based grants should be the number one priority of the government.

I have a last short question.

Scott, I assume you are opposed to Bill C-284.

Amanda, as it is, do you support Bill C-284?

[Amanda Aziz]

I've got to fit it in in seven minutes.

So over 350,000 students in Canada are forced to borrow to finance their education every year. Depending on the province, average student debt for a four-year program ranges from $25,000 to $28,000 per student. Upfront financial barriers, namely tuition fees and other costs associated with pursuing a post-secondary education, have created a profound participation gap among Canadian families. Statistics Canada calculates that students from high-income families are more than twice as likely to attend as those from low-income families.

Although post-secondary education remains a provincial jurisdiction, the federal government has a role to play in providing high-quality education to Canadians. From our perspective, one such role is providing the funding needed through transfer payments, with an emphasis on controlling the costs of post-secondary education, which is obviously of great concern lately. An equally important role is the provision of needs-based financial assistance through non-repayable grants.

Canada remains one of about two industrialized countries without a national system of needs-based grants. Despite the millions of dollars spent each year by the federal government on a patchwork of student aid programs, the failure of federal initiatives to improve access to post-secondary education can be traced back to a clearer vision for student financial assistance.

Although not to be confused with a comprehensive national system of needs-based grants, Bill C-284 has the potential to ensure that more students in need of financial assistance are able to receive it. When the Canada access grants were initially announced, the Canadian Federation of Students advocated for the grants to be expanded to all years of study, as this bill is proposing.

I want to be clear that grants alone are not enough to ensure that low-income students have access to post-secondary education. The fact that education costs continue to rise means that any level of grant will be devalued with each subsequent increase in cost. In addition to grant moneys, it's vitally important that the federal government provide adequate funding for post-secondary education, with a special emphasis on controlling the costs of tuition fees.

The lack of measures to ensure Canadians do not face barriers to participation in post-secondary education will have an effect on the economy and social well-being of the country. Post-secondary education is an issue that must transcend partisan lines, and I hope that all members of this committee realize the important role the federal government must play in ensuring high-quality, accessible post-secondary education.

As I've already stated, the federal government currently provides a patchwork of funding to students and their families through existing aid programs, many of which are inadequate and not helping those who need assistance the most. For the record, the Canadian Federation of Students does not consider savings programs, or education, tuition, textbook, or otherwise tax credits, adequate student financial assistance. Low-income students will not benefit from non-refundable tax credits, nor can they afford to participate in federal savings plans meant for their benefit.

Moreover, since everyone who participates in post-secondary education qualifies for tax credits, regardless of financial need, the federal government is focusing on directing public funding, where it is not necessarily improving access for students who cannot afford high tuition fees.

For example, the average annual income of families making use of federal education tax credits and the registered education savings plan is over $70,000. In their first year, the Canada access grants were awarded to over 30,000 students, costing almost $52.6 million. In that same year, $462 million was paid by the federal government as matching grants to the Canadian education savings grant, to children whose families are investing in RESPs.

The expenditure made on tax credits and savings programs, if offered as upfront grants, could deliver significant financial assistance to students with the greatest financial need. For example, if every Canada student loan recipient received a $3,000 grant, the cost would be approximately $1.13 billion per year. In other words, if the amount the federal government currently spends on the tuition fee and education tax credit, estimated to be about $1.15 billion per year, were simply shifted to a front-end grant, access could be improved dramatically.

Providing student financial assistance through upfront, non-repayable grants is the most effective means to get student aid in the hands of students at the time when it is most needed, when large costs are being incurred, at the time of tuition fee deadlines. After-the-fact tax credits do nothing to improve access to post-secondary education.

I understand there has been some concern raised by members of Parliament as to whether or not this is the appropriate time to be debating such a bill, given the relative newness of Canada access grants. I just want to assure the committee that the measures in Bill C-284 in fact are long overdue and there's plenty of research out there that concludes that upfront financial assistance is the most effective aid measure to improve access to post-secondary education.

In closing, I just want to say that on behalf of the Canadian Federation of Students, we're pleased to see this bill before the House and this committee, and we hope that all members recognize the difficulties facing students these days, in particular, students from low-income and middle-income backgrounds, aboriginal students, students with disabilities, and other minority groups in Canada.

As I've already stated, of course any amount of student financial assistance can become obsolete if the cost of post-secondary education continues to rise, but given that the cost of education continues to be a barrier for many Canadians today, if passed, we believe that Bill C-284 could go a long way in helping many new and continuing students attain a post-secondary education.

I want to thank the committee again for having us here today, and I look forward to some debate and discussion.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to greet our colleague, whom I'm pleased to see. We worked together on this committee, and it was very constructive.

Once again, I think the bill before us is very positive, to the extent that it offers support, particularly for students who come from low-income families.

To start with, the Bloc will support this bill. We are aware, of course, that our support stems mainly from the fact that the federal Canada Student Financial Assistance Act contains a provision that allows Quebec to opt out with full compensation. That's what enables us to be free to support this bill. We won't speak much so as to enable our colleagues from the other parties who are more directly involved to do so.

It must be recognized that Bill C-284, like student financial assistance, does not promote the best training as such. In actual fact, the quality of training is not necessarily improved because this is a provincial jurisdiction

We think it is important that federal transfers be increased to enable the provinces to better meet their education obligations. As you will recall, the Council of the Federation made an effort to improve transfers, but it failed in that regard.

Mr. Regan, you were on the government's side for some time. Today, you've taken some distance from the situation. Do you believe that additional efforts should be made to improve federal transfers for education? At the same time, do you believe that part of the problem we are currently encountering, which requires that this type of bill be introduced, stems precisely from the fact that federal transfers have been cut over the years?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We would need notice for that. The orders of the day were to talk about this bill. Since there's no motion before us right now, we're going to end the meeting, and we'll come back to these things if it's brought up or put on the agenda for future meetings.

It would have been nice if we had known. We could have moved through quickly and we could have started working on Bill C-284.

Mr. Savage, on a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

I thank all the witnesses for being here.

Just before the committee goes, I gather that we have consent for one day of hearings on Bill C-284. Is that okay? Thank you very much.

With that, the meeting is adjourned.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

I just see one day of witnesses on Bill C-284. Is that correct?

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

Would it make any sense to flip Bill C-284 and Bill C-303 and do Bill C-284 first?

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

The subcommittee will look at how many days to allocate and make a recommendation to us on Bill C-284.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I have it in front of me. The way the schedule works right now is that when we're done with them next week, we're going to start with Bill C-303, then the employability study, and then Bill C-284. That is the way it's going to work, as we decided on the subagenda.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Chair, just for clarification, Bill C-284, then, will come when we're finished Bill C-303?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're going to finish up the employability study and we're going to do Bill C-303 and Bill C-284. That is correct. That is the order we're going to follow.

The other thing I want to suggest, not to cloud the issues here, is about the motion of Ms. Redman that came forward. Mr. Lessard proposed, because of the way the motion was written, that we deal with it in May, which we do not have in our calendar right now.

I would encourage you all to go back to your whips to deal with the fact that Mr. Lessard has made a motion that makes a lot of sense: that we have a chance to look at it in the fall, because we are jammed up.

We also have the fact that we don't want to be sitting any more than two days a week. I know that will be coming up for a vote tomorrow night.

So I would encourage you to talk to the whips. It's not that we're trying to put if off, but we have a calendar that is full right now, and unless you want to start sitting three days a week again, that is an issue.

That was a very good motion, Mr. Lessard, that you put forward.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

Just on this bill, I understand the importance. Bill C-303 is a very important bill and requires sufficient time. Bill C-284 is also very important. I met today with some students, and they asked me the status of it, so I'm glad this came up today.

Will it be the next study we do after Bill C-303?