Bill C-44 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Canada Post Corporation Act

This enactment amends the Canada Post Corporation Act to modify the exclusive privilege of the Canada Post Corporation so as to permit letter exporters to collect letters in Canada for transmittal and delivery outside Canada.

Canada Post Corporation Act

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his expertise and passion in defending Canada Post and all it stands for.

As a Canadian who has been following our political scene over the years and having recently become involved in politics, what I see is a progressive loss of control of our way of life by government. I see what could be called the Milton Friedman philosophy of deregulation, privatization and government pulling out and allowing the corporate sector to take over. I see this as another step in that direction, often at the expense of jobs and of a system that works.

In my province of British Columbia, the government-owned railway, BC Rail, was sold. This railway company was generating a profit. We are in the process of losing public power, BC Hydro.

Does my colleague feel this is just another one of a number of steps toward privatizing our way of life to bring in more corporate control?

There are other examples, such as the Canadian Wheat Board, which is under attack by the Conservative government even though it is efficient and making money for farmers.

People in Canada Post receive a decent wage and provide us with a service.

Is this another step in an attack on our Canadian way of life?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I had the experience of eight years of the Mike Harris government in Ontario, and privatization was the way to go. His government privatized anything it could lay its hands on. I will give one quick example because Ontarians need to know the history.

Highway 407 was sold after it was bought and built by the Ontario taxpayer and was making money. It was sold by the Mike Harris government and all of the profit from that sale went into election year revenues as one line of income in the budget. To this day, those of us who use the 407 are paying hugely higher tolls than the going rate around the world for a similar type of toll road.

One of the things that is most exasperating about this is that when the Conservatives sell off the country's crown jewels, not to pay the bills but to ensure that their rich friends become richer, we do not even get the fire sale dollar amount that we would normally get. One change in the law and all of that would suddenly stay with the private side, which gets to make all of the money and Canada gets nothing from it. Nothing.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his animated presentation because it is actually time that we became a little animated about what is happening.

We are even seeing it to some extent in regard to the CBC. The member may recall that there was a provision in the last budget, Bill C-51, whereby the borrowing authority of CBC was being increased and everybody thought that was a good thing. However, it was being increased simply because the government would not provide the resources necessary for CBC to continue to deliver services to Canadians. With that borrowing authority the government is actually cashing in the leasing revenues on buildings that it owns but does not use just to provide the cash flow that it needs. It is done just to survive. I characterize that as one of the next steps in the privatization of the CBC.

With regard to Canada Post and the re-mailer situation, I would like to ask the member if he could inform the House of a bit of the history. I ask because was told by someone, and I just want to just confirm it, how the re-mailer situation arose and what options may be available to address it either by remediation of a mistake that happened before, or by some sort of arrangement made on a one time basis to grandfather current provisions as opposed to trying to unravel what has been done.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the questions by the hon. member for Mississauga South and his involvement. I hope he will convince his colleagues to join with us in stopping this bill because we can. At caucus meeting Wednesday I hope the member will do that.

I do not think there is any question that if there had been an easy solution it would have been found. If we look at the history of this, there was a period a few years ago when there was an attempt under a universal mailing union system to see if there could be a compromise that Canada Post could live with to avoid what the member is saying.

My understanding is that Canada Post did everything it possibly could, and others will disagree but that is what I am advised, but it could not find that agreement, which is why it ultimately took them to court. It seemed as if it would be the privatizer's way or the highway and Canada Post could not live with it.

If we do this, Canada Post will be in a financial crunch. Canadians in B.C. will not have the same service as those in downtown Toronto or the cost of postage will go way up or we will have to put in our budgets every year, which we do not need to now, a sum of money that is dedicated to subsidizing Canada Post. That is why this makes no sense.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, this issue goes right back to the establishment of Canada Post Corporation. I have a quote from the postmaster general of the day. André Ouellet was the Liberal postmaster general in 1980. He said that the Canada Post Corporation will have the monopoly to transport letters so as to have a guaranteed source of revenue allowing it to ensure the universality of services.

That is the very foundation of Canada Post, the requirement of the monopoly in order to allow universal services so that someone from B.C. can write a letter to Nain, Labrador for the same price as it costs for a letter to go from Toronto to Montreal. This is a fundamental principle.

Does the member think the Liberal Party has actually abandoned that principle or is there some other reason why the member thinks they may not support it?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I suppose there is a long list of reasons why the Liberals might not be supporting it but what matters to Canadians is that they are not supporting us in stopping the bill and staying with the tradition. They have a tradition and I will go so far as to say that it is one they can be relatively proud of in the past with Canada Post. Why on earth are they throwing that overboard to appease a handful of private interests in Canada? We do not understand.

I will read another quote from the 1996 review mandate. It states in part that private companies would concentrate on high density urban areas and ignore rural and remote markets “because the combination of sparse population, low mail volumes and numerous distribution points is one that offers little prospect of profitability”.

Canada Post is about providing an important service to Canadians. The private business interest is to make money. The two do not go together. Why are we denying Canada Post the ability to be financially viable without costing taxpayers a single dime beyond what they pay directly for the postal service?

The Liberals need to answer to Canadians on why they would even consider letting the bill go through and do that kind of damage to Canada Post?

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, I want to speak about the importance of rural postal delivery and the fact that we need to support it. It is not cost effective in some areas because it costs a lot to go to some places.

I am talking about the northern communities in particular, starting in my riding. We have a very big capital city of 23,000 or so people where delivery service is easy. It is very efficient and cost effective for any corporation. Canada Post provides good service and does that economically.

Then we have a number of very small communities. One, Old Crow, where the mail has to go on the plane because there are no roads. There are other communities that can be a four, five or six hour drive, such as Beaver Creek, Watson Lake, Mayo and Teslin, Pelly Crossing, and Keno. Some communities have very few citizens, a few dozen citizens, and it is very expensive to deliver mail to such communities for the few letters that are mailed at 54¢ a letter, the cost for delivery in Canada. We all want Canada Post to be self-sustaining and to at least break even. It needs to have revenues to deliver to those small communities.

In the Northwest Territories, the situation is even more costly. Large cities like Yellowknife and Inuvik have highway access, but there are many cities that only have air access. Mailing letters to places with only air access is very expensive. Those communities without roads in the Northwest Territories are tremendously costly for Canada Post. Canada Post needs to have support from revenue somehow. Some of that comes from the exclusive privilege.

Nunavut has virtually no roads at all. Everything has to be flown in to all the communities, even to the large capital city and all the small communities. It is very expensive. Flights are extremely expensive because it is so far north, so isolated, so hard to get to and such difficult climate conditions. Yet, these communities have a right to receive mail like anyone else in Canada.

Once again, it is a very costly exercise, but for the same amount of 54¢, they have the right to receive mail from anyone in Canada and it needs to be covered. The exclusive privilege is very useful in helping Canada Post. It is one mechanism that can be used to ensure that it can provide reasonable rates to all Canadians for mail to their communities.

Mail is delivered to rural areas in Canada, to farms. In the Prairies there are some communities which have several dozen people and in the past were actually incorporated as a municipality. They need delivery. Rural post offices are very important places in Canada and we have fought to keep those open.

Time and time again, as the previous speaker said, we have a proud record in fighting for those rural post offices so that people in small communities have access, not simply for mailing a letter but to other services that Canada Post offers. In some small communities those other services could be delivered by no one else. There are no banks or other types of organizations in these very small communities. Canada Post can provide some services, and once again, this is not always a money-making opportunity for Canada Post. It has to have sufficient revenues to fund these services.

Another service is the delivery to the farms and the postal boxes that are on the highways. In particular, there have been some concerns in the last few years about the safety of the setup of the postal boxes and how those deliveries are made. In our belief, the answer is not necessarily to eliminate delivery to farms and rural people, but to improve access to where that mail person has to stop and make that delivery. Once again, these are expenses that could be incurred by Canada Post and it needs the revenues to pay for these expenses. One can see why this is important.

In some cases, a larger pull off the side of the road is needed. There could be a slot at the bottom of a hill so the postal car would not be stopping on the highway. However, we also do not Canada Post to cancel the service to that particular post office. If elderly people have been going to the end of their driveway for years to get their mail and then all of a sudden they are told that they are going to have to go out onto the highway and down the highway somewhere else to get that mail, one can imagine the potential for very serious accidents.

Elderly people could pull out on a very busy highway, especially in the winter. They may not see an oncoming car as clearly as they thought. The oncoming car, which could normally stop quickly, may not on an icy road. Once again, these provisions to ensure that the mail person is safe and that the farmer and the people living in these rural communities are also safe all cost money. Canada Post needs the type of revenue to ensure that these people are covered.

We now have a number of areas that are saving some money by having super-boxes. Mail is put into one location where everyone can go. It saves on door-to-door delivery. It is practical, but there are still a large number of stops in very rural areas. It costs a fair amount to deliver these many 54¢ letters. Canada Post receives some more revenue for larger letters, but of course they are heavy to carry.

It is a tenet of our Constitution that Canadians have the ability to receive services comparable to all Canadians no matter where they live. Certainly, mail is one of those types of services that all Canadians should have the right to access. It is a great binder of our nation and makes us all feel part of a country where we can all live in a great modern society and have those types of services that everyone should have access to.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order. When the House returns to this matter, the hon. member for Yukon will have 11 minutes remaining.