An Act to amend the Patent Act (drugs for international humanitarian purposes) and to make a consequential amendment to another Act

This bill was last introduced in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session, which ended in March 2011.

This bill was previously introduced in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session.

Sponsor

Judy Wasylycia-Leis  NDP

Introduced as a private member’s bill. (These don’t often become law.)

Status

In committee (House), as of Dec. 2, 2009
(This bill did not become law.)

Summary

This is from the published bill. The Library of Parliament often publishes better independent summaries.

This enactment amends the Patent Act and the Food and Drugs Act to make it easier to manufacture and export pharmaceutical products to address public health problems afflicting many developing and least-developed countries, especially those resulting from HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria and other epidemics.

Elsewhere

All sorts of information on this bill is available at LEGISinfo, an excellent resource from the Library of Parliament. You can also read the full text of the bill.

Votes

March 9, 2011 Passed That Motion No. 3 be amended by deleting all the words after the words “The provisions of this Act that amend the Patent Act” and substituting the following: “shall cease to apply on the day that is the tenth anniversary of the day on which this Act comes into force unless, before that day, the application of those provisions is subject to a comprehensive review by the standing committee designated by the House of Commons for that purpose, that committee recommends that they be maintained and the House of Commons approves that recommendation.”.
Dec. 2, 2009 Passed That the Bill be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

October 21st, 2010 / 12:20 p.m.
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NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One of the interesting things about the bill....The department is very critical of it. Setting up the standards, it could be a runaway success. I guess a runaway success would be that we'd have a lot of different drugs that then would be exported, treating people and actually saving lives. It's kind of an interesting analysis of it. But they also painted the picture that Apotex in Rwanda was a success story.

You know, getting the drugs to those individuals, yes, that is a success. But the process wasn't. And they painted the picture that CAMR worked very efficiently in that, but CAMR requires you to do some work before you actually do your paperwork with it. Can you maybe go through that experience?

What I find kind of incredible about the department's attitude in this is that.... I asked them during a briefing that if they don't think Bill C-393 is a good bill, could they offer suggestions on how to improve it, and not one of the departments could offer one suggestion on that. I find that incredible, because if we don't change it, it's just not going to get used at all.

The hoops that were jumped through to get the Apotex Rwanda thing done.... Back in 2003, when we started this, there were warnings that it wouldn't work. But at the same time, when we had the final piece, we all said we'll put down our swords, stop fighting over it and try to make it work. Now that one success story is being used against fixing the system.

Can you provide some insight into the timelines of what happened in Rwanda?

October 21st, 2010 / 12:10 p.m.
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Bloc

Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC

As Mr. Braid said earlier—and Mr. Masse mentioned it in his question—there is the whole issue of traceability. And this does not necessarily have to do with whether the medication will be returned, but whether it will be distributed elsewhere for commercial purposes. So a drug diversion problem would arise. When the officials appeared before us last week, that is one of the aspects they drew our attention to, saying that Bill C-393 reduces traceability, or does not allow for the traceability of drugs in order to ensure that they are really going where they are supposed to.

Mr. Elliott, in your presentation, you were challenging some of the negative arguments against Bill C-393 made by the officials last week. In your opinion, their warnings to us were not justified. Could you perhaps provide more details on the topic? Could you explain why, in your opinion, officials responsible for the smooth operation of Canada's Access to Medicines Regime, that is the officials responsible for making sure that vulnerable populations have access to drugs, would want to put up roadblocks, so to speak? Why would they be against improving the program, which is designed to ensure that vulnerable populations get the help they need?

October 21st, 2010 / 11:55 a.m.
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Executive Director, Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network

Richard Elliott

I would differ slightly with Dr. Kilby about the perhaps overly rosy picture regarding access here to medicines being perfect. In the U.S. there are barriers to access, but not necessarily the patent barriers.

I did want to specifically speak to the legal aspect of preventing this kind of diversion from happening. And while most of our brief is focused on this question of compliance with WTO rules, there's actually a section toward the end that talks about this misconception, that somehow Bill C-393 is going to remove all the safeguards against this sort of diversion of medicines. It actually preserves safeguards that would require different labelling, different packaging, colour, shape, and so on of medicines that are being exported. And if that's not clear to you in the bill now, then let's work on making that clear, because we want those safeguards to be in place.

The other thing I want to say is that under Bill C-393, provisions that are in the current law are preserved that require generic manufacturers to disclose the quantities of medicines that they're shipping and to which countries. That information has to be disclosed to the patent holders; it has to be posted on a publicly available website. You have to disclose that not only to prevent the diversion of medicines but also so you can calculate the royalties that you have to pay to the brand-name companies.

So those things are all in there as important parts of the mechanism. They're preserved.

October 21st, 2010 / 11:50 a.m.
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NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our guests here today.

We had rather interesting testimony from the departments the other day. In their deck and presentation and in another document that was provided as a briefing, they were saying that on one hand, the proposals in C-393 would enter us into a trade challenge and maybe threaten investment in Canada. There would be a series of other problems. At the same time, it wouldn't work.

It didn't make any sense. They were making both claims.

One of the points I wanted you to maybe comment on is that they say here:

There is no evidence that changing CAMR will result in more developing countries using the regime to import drugs from Canada rather than continuing to purchase low-cost drugs from other sources.

We were just talking a little bit about that with Mr. Braid. I'd like you to talk a little bit about the Apotex situation. The reality is that we have generic companies in this country that are world-class successful and would increase jobs if production actually increased. Can you comment on that, please?

October 21st, 2010 / 11:25 a.m.
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Executive Director, Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network

Richard Elliott

On the first question, about compliance with WTO obligations, the proposals that are in Bill C-393 have been drafted with the expertise of people who know what the WTO law says, and very much taking that into consideration.

There is extensive discussion in our brief of this very point. It walks you through why it is that the provisions that are core to Bill C-393 are in fact compliant with the decision of the WTO General Council from August 30, 2003--which is the key instrument here--and with the underlying treaty, the agreement on trade-related aspects of intellectual property rights, TRIPS.

There are international legal experts who have been tapped to provide input in the drafting of this bill. I mentioned earlier that we convened a consultation of a number of legal experts earlier this year with the UN Development Program. We spent a day going through the provisions of Bill C-393, looking at whether these were compliant with the requirements of the WTO. The answer was pretty much yes.

There were one or two places--as you'll see in the report of that meeting, which is coming to you as soon as it's back from translation--where the experts said, “This is compliant with WTO. However, you could see that there might be some ambiguity here. So here is a recommendation about how you make a slight tweak to remove any question that this is compliant with WTO obligations.” That was the purpose of the consultation. We wanted to know if it was compliant with WTO, and if it's not, what we should do to address that. The answer was that it's compliant as is, but here are some things you can actually do to make it even better.

I think that will be useful for the committee's deliberations once you have it, and we'd certainly be happy to discuss the details there.

October 21st, 2010 / 11:10 a.m.
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Dr. Don Kilby President and Founder, Canada Africa Community Health Alliance

Thank you very much for having me here. I will keep my remarks a little briefer than my colleague and make sure I stay close to time.

I'm a family physician, an HIV primary care physician, and as you've heard, I'm a founder of the Canada Africa Community Health Alliance, a small local volunteer-based charity based out of Ottawa working with partners in Africa to improve the health of rural African villages. There are about 150 to 200 Canadians a year who choose CACHA in order to volunteer on medical missions. They volunteer their time and underwrite the full cost of each mission, including the medications that we dispense free of charge and the medical supplies, as well as surgical supplies needed to enhance the level of care of our partners.

We work on a determinants of health model, and we believe that health is proportional to access to housing, secure food supplies, education, water, sanitation, transportation, employment, and personal security and freedom. We do not restrict our efforts to medical care only. We also support orphans and vulnerable children programs; build infrastructure, including a made-in-Canada floating dispensary; provide solar lighting in villages for students to study; drill wells; support microfinance; and support people living with HIV and AIDS. Given the recent reports on Canadian charities, we do this using at least 90% of all taxable revenues directly in the countries. This is a young organization, an organization that's only been around since 2002.

Today what I want to talk about is the whole issue of access to medications in resource-limited countries and the role Canada had hoped to play and could still play in order to contribute in a significant manner to the world's continued and growing needs for affordably priced essential drugs.

In 2003 I was here supporting legislation for Canada's access to medicine regime, and we believed at the time that it was the right thing to do and it was a good move. I will admit that also at that time, given the complexity of the regulations around securing a compulsory licence to produce, we seriously doubted that any drug under this regime would ever make its way from Canada to another country. We didn't criticize Parliament's efforts at the time but rather took pride in the fact that Canada was the first G-8 country to amend its national laws in order to implement the World Trade Organization's decision to allow generic versions of still patented drugs to be manufactured and exported under compulsory licensing.

Canada's leadership would bolster efforts in other countries to do the same, so that developing countries could have access to a steady supply of cheaper drugs available in a more competitive market. In the area of HIV, access to generic, co-formulated, triple-drug therapy available from India became the hope of nations in the scale up of treatments of AIDS in Africa. So in 2003 we had 400,000 people in low- to middle-income countries who received antiretroviral drugs. By 2005 we had 1.3 million, and by the end of this year, there will be 5.2 million people on antiretroviral therapy in resource-limited settings. In 2009 alone, there were 1.2 million new patients initiating antiretroviral therapy.

In 2002 at the International Aids Conference in Barcelona, we were all told it couldn't be done. I remember attending a presentation that was done by Médecins Sans Frontières, who were working on a project outside of Cape Town in South Africa, and a Harvard group in a project in Haiti. They had presented successful demonstration projects that we then used in order to replicate these thousands of times across Africa and the Caribbean.

At that time I remember a very heated discussion and a lot of criticism coming from the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. It was said at the time that people in resource-limited settings would not be compliant with therapy, not as compliant at least as people in North America or Europe, that local governments could not put in place the infrastructures as well as the procurement and distribution systems necessary to get drugs to patients, that there were not the trained personnel needed to treat so many people, that the world could just not afford it, and that the business model was flawed.

To the credit of the G-8 leaders, at the insistence of groups like Médecins Sans Frontières and others, and the World Health Organization's global fund, and the bilateral U.S. President's emergency plan for AIDS relief, they committed to the goal of three million people in treatment by 2005.

So procurement processes were put in place, thousands of allied health-care providers were trained, clinics were built, testing programs and mother-to-child transmission strategies were expanded, as well as programs dealing with the social and economic fallout, including millions of orphans and vulnerable children. There are now home-based programs and local AIDS service organizations in place throughout all of the world today.

Essentially what we have been able to do is develop a comprehensive model of care many believed could never be built, and this in only a few short years. What was accomplished is nothing short of a miracle: 5.2 million people on treatment by 2010.

CAMR and other compulsory licensing programs should also have evolved during this time to ensure that we have a continuous flow of medicines at affordable prices. In all other areas, other than procurement of drugs, the concerted international efforts ensure today that all that needs to be in place to get medicine to people is in place.

CACHA is working with partners in Benin, Gabon, Tanzania, and Uganda, now since 2002. We concentrate our efforts in the hardest-to-reach populations in remote rural communities where there were no services for people living with HIV and AIDS. We help our local partners articulate needs, identify those infected through testing, and secure infrastructure necessary to treat people with HIV. And we secure this through strategic partnerships that are south-south, north-north, and north-south.

In Tanzania in three remote village areas we have seen our partners go from no HIV patients in care to more than 10,000 people in care in less than three years. Up until recently drug procurement and access has not been an issue. But this success is now being threatened in other countries, not only in Tanzania, by the limited supplies of affordable therapies.

The supply issues have nothing to do with getting drugs to local markets. The problem is procurement of cheaper, first-line therapies in sufficient quantities to treat all those who should be on treatment. Today, 5.2 million need to remain on treatment, and close to another 5 million need to be on treatment.

Canada's access to medicines regime should become a viable source of affordable medication available in a manner consistent with traditional procurement practices of purchasing countries that would allow these countries to ask for competitive tenders in order to ensure best pricing and timely delivery of product to market.

What we have in place is not meeting the desired goal. We have worked with government officials in two of the countries and we have examined with them the procurement mechanisms in both cases. And both countries have found that they are too cumbersome when other markets were available to them, despite their strong desire to purchase drugs from a North American generic company.

The other issue we have is that today, as people fail on therapy because of drug intolerance or toxicity, or compliance issues, countries now need to invest in newer drugs, second-line therapies, but these are at ten to fifty times the costs of first-line therapies. Health-care budgets in these countries cannot sustain such costs without significantly limiting the number of new patients who would access cheaper first-line treatments. Compulsory licensing, therefore, is needed even more today. It is needed to ensure an adequate supply of both affordable first and second-line treatments.

We can't rely on a system that's so encumbered by regulations. We need a system of compulsory licensing that is not time-limited, with no set limit on quantities to be purchased, and that can turn on a dime.

So CACHA supports a one-licence solution: one compulsory licence on patented medicine, regardless of quantity of medicine ordered or the number of eligible countries requesting the drug. Doing this will cost Canadian taxpayers nothing, beyond the international aid dollars we have already committed. And doing this will do nothing to reduce the profits of multinational pharmaceutical companies. There really is virtually no market for their patented drugs in developing countries, and without a market there is no real threat to their future or to the future of research and development in resource-rich settings like our own. In fact, CAMR royalties from otherwise non-existent markets would be paid to these patent holders.

This doesn't mean that these drugs that are produced in Canada that are destined for other markets would make their way back to Canada to be sold on the black market in resource-rich settings. We have enough processes in place in terms of the labelling and sanctions, and in fact if we look at our market and at that of our neighbours to the south, virtually all people with HIV and AIDS have access to drugs that are paid for through either private or public funding mechanisms. So enacting Bill C-393 will make the much-needed medicine more accessible and, through competition, also more affordable.

Thank you.

October 21st, 2010 / 11:10 a.m.
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Executive Director, Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network

Richard Elliott

Thank you.

Perhaps I could save the fourth part of my remarks--the question of what Bill C-393does not do--for the question-and-answer session, because I expect that I will get a number of questions about what it is claimed that Bill C-393 will do, and I would be happy to correct the record.

Thanks very much.

October 21st, 2010 / 11 a.m.
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Richard Elliott Executive Director, Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the members of the committee for the opportunity to appear before you today. Thank you as well to the committee for actually studying this bill, because I know that was something that has been in some question.

I want to draw your attention to the material that we have provided. You will find a copy of our brief. I think it's been provided to you already. I will come back to it in the course of my remarks, and I hope it will address many of the questions that you have. I hope to answer those questions over the course of the next two hours.

By way of introduction, I'm a lawyer who has been working on HIV-related legal issues for 18 years. For the last nine years I've been working intensively on questions of international law, including WTO law, and access to medicines, including doing graduate work on the subject.

This is also a personal issue for me, not just an intellectual one. I was born in Africa and raised there for a significant portion of my life. I have worked for many years in Africa with various partner organizations responding to the global AIDS crisis.

The organization for which I work, the Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network, has been working on this particular issue for nine years now, from back when the World Trade Organization members were adopting a declaration recognizing that they needed to do something about the barriers that patents pose for developing countries in getting access to affordable medicines, to the discussions that led to the drafting of Canada's access to medicines regime--enacted unanimously by Parliament in 2004--to organizing international consultations with experts from around the world on pharmaceutical procurement and intellectual property law, to a consultation that we held earlier this year with the UN Development Programme. This consultation generated some analysis that will be coming to you as an additional submission on the question of whether the proposed reforms in Bill C-393 are compliant with Canada's obligations as a member of the World Trade Organization.

This is an issue on which we have a fair depth of knowledge. It is perhaps not a surprise, therefore, that the brief we've submitted to you is some 50 pages in length. However, I hope it will be of use to you, and I want to draw to your attention the appendix in particular, because I think it will be a particularly useful reference for you.

As you know from reading Bill C-393, the bill makes a number of amendments to two pieces of existing legislation, the Patent Act and the Food and Drugs Act. Of course, it's hard to get the real sense of what the bill does unless you track all of the changes that the bill would make to the existing statutory provisions. To make it simpler, we've done that for you; in the appendix to our brief you'll find the relevant sections from the Patent Act that constitute Canada's access to medicines regime and the relevant provisions in the Food and Drugs Act. We have tracked onto the existing text of the law the additions and deletions that Bill C-393 proposes to make so that you can actually read it through in its entirety and see what the final text of the law would look like with these proposed amendments. I find it's much easier to have the discussion when you can see what we're actually talking about, and not in isolation.

I'd like to cover four areas in my remarks today, if I could: I'd like to tell you what CAMR is supposed to do, but I won't belabour that too much, because you know that; I'd like to say what CAMR has actually done, but that won't take very long, because the answer is “not much”; I'd like to tell you what Bill C-393 would do; and I'd like to tell you what Bill C-393 would not do, because there is a fair bit of misinformation circulating, including some of what you heard from government representatives last Thursday at your meeting, claiming all sorts of things about what Bill C-393 supposedly would do, and that information is not in fact correct. Let me speak to each of those four, if I could.

Briefly, what is CAMR, the access to medicines regime, supposed to do? The fundamental purpose of CAMR, as reflected in the discussions that preceded it at the World Trade Organization, is to help developing countries make effective use of compulsory licensing. That is the terminology negotiated by World Trade Organization members, including Canada. They are to make effective use of compulsory licensing in order to address public health problems by getting more affordable medicines.

The goal, stated by WTO members themselves, is to promote access to medicines for all. This arises out of discussions at the WTO in 2001, nine years ago, in which WTO members, including Canada, explicitly recognized that patent restrictions on medicines are a barrier--not the only barrier, but a barrier, and an important barrier--to affordable medicines getting to patients in developing countries.

Very specifically, one of the things WTO members recognized was that when you have patent restrictions in a place like Canada, where there is the capacity to make generic medicines and to supply them to developing countries that don't, you need to have some mechanism to get around that; otherwise it's patent infringement for a generic manufacturer here to be producing and exporting these generics. So WTO members set themselves the task of coming up with a mechanism that would get around that barrier, and that was a decision adopted in 2003, about which you've heard a great deal and which is really the central piece of WTO law relevant to any discussion of the existing CAMR and the reforms proposed in Bill C-393.

The purpose of CAMR—to implement a mechanism so that developing countries can make effective use of compulsory licensing to get generic drugs from Canada—is aimed at harnessing the power of competition. We're operating within a market paradigm here and we're harnessing the power of competition in the market to drive the prices of medicines down for developing countries. That is the purpose, and that in fact is what we've seen globally, that when countries have had the ability to get generic AIDS drugs, the prices of those drugs have dropped from over $10,000 U.S. per patient per year to $100 per patient per year now for some regimens. That's an order of magnitude of difference, and of course it makes feasible the task of putting people on life-saving treatment.

Because of this we have now seen four million people with AIDS in the developing world getting life-saving medicines in just a matter of a few years. This has only been made possible because there was competition in the pharmaceutical marketplace for those countries, and generic medicines were available at much lower prices. None of that would have been possible if the limited moneys made available for donor aid to buy medicines had to be spent to buy $10,000 courses of a treatment per patient per year, as opposed to $100 per patient per year.

That's what CAMR is supposed to do. Second, what has CAMR actually done?

As you know, it's been more than six years since CAMR was enacted by Parliament, and in that time, after a lot of work by a number of NGOs, after the commitment from one generic manufacturer, we have seen one drug leave this country to go to one country. That's tremendously significant for us, because it shows that we can do things, that we can make a difference. But I think it would be wrong to conclude that it somehow proves that the current access to medicines regime works. That result came about, as I said, because of years of hard work by various NGOs. It came about partly by chance. It came about because of conditions that are not easily replicable in future, and the one generic manufacturer that had made a commitment to NGOs, that is, to Doctors Without Borders, to try to make this regime work has said it will not attempt to do it again because its experience so far has not been encouraging.

However, that same company has also publicly committed that if the legislation is streamlined the way Bill C-393 proposes to do, the first next step for them would be to make a pediatric version of this drug. Access to AIDS treatment for children living with HIV falls way behind access to treatment for adults with HIV—who already are less than half of the people who need treatment now, and who will die without it. That's why it's so important that we have pediatric formulations of antiretroviral drugs, because 80% of children who are born with HIV will die by the age of two if they do not get medicines.

There are some medicines out there now that are being used to treat children. In many cases, they are not particularly user-friendly. If you can imagine that you're a grandmother caring for several orphans, some of whom are HIV-positive, it's not a particularly helpful way to make AIDS treatment available to children if you have to periodically get to a clinic—if they have the medicine at an affordable price—to get a syrup that you have to carry back to your home, where you may or may not have refrigeration.

If you could instead get something in simple tablet form, that is, something much more portable and not requiring refrigeration for storage, or in the form perhaps of something dispersible so it could be administered more easily to infants, then you would really be trying to get into the real world of getting medicines to people in a form that is easily usable. That's something that we can do if we fix this legislation. It would be a first next step, and then we would move beyond that with more medicines from generics at lower prices.

So what CAMR has actually done so far is relatively little. I don't think we can say that one drug to one country in six years is a success, given the need out there and given what was promised.

What would Bill C-393 do then?

You will have heard and seen in our material that we have described the core of Bill C-393 as putting in place what we call a one-licence solution.

Under the current legislation, every single drug order for each individual country requires a separate process of trying to get a licence to supply that country with a fixed quantity of medicines. It also requires that you know ahead of time the country and the specific quantity of medicines that you want to supply. In CAMR's experience to date, that has proven to be one of the most significant stumbling blocks, and it explains in part why it took two and half years to get to the point of having the first licence issued. I can explain to you why that is.

Our proposal in Bill C-393, which we fully support, is to change that process of licensing so that a generic manufacturer will get one licence, once, that will authorize that generic manufacturer to supply any of the eligible developing countries that are already recognized in the WTO law and in the Canadian legislation with the quantities of those medicines that developing countries will notify from time to time.

That will reduce the transaction costs of using the system. It would put generic manufacturers in a better position, because they can bid to supply multiple countries simultaneously, knowing that they already have the legal authorization in hand to do that. In the current process, they have to go into a bidding process individually with the different countries, without even knowing whether they'll be able to get the licence in the end to supply the drug, should their bid be chosen, because they will need to go through the current cumbersome CAMR process. Bill C-393 would simplify that and cut through that.

October 7th, 2010 / 12:30 p.m.
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NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll provide this to the clerk to follow up. This is the Journal of the International AIDS Society. They studied the Indian experience with the supply of drugs into Africa. The conclusion is that it's now at risk in the pricing because of the WTO, TRIPS, and other movements they have made. I will table this for the committee, because the current status quo from India is not going to maintain itself and there are going to be rises in costs and prices.

One of the statements you make in your deck here is that Bill C-393 is unlikely to increase demand to use CAMR. Ironically, it is also a threat for Canada with the WTO and everything else. What evidence do you have of that? How do you square that with Apotex, which has said they would use the CAMR more if it were changed?

October 7th, 2010 / 12:15 p.m.
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Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Okay. There's a $60,000 question for me, then. If we understand that Bill C-393 has flaws and CAMR has limitations, then the question is, how can Canada provide an increased quantity of HIV/AIDS medications to the developing world?

October 7th, 2010 / 12:15 p.m.
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Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Ready, turning to you, sir, with respect to the trade obligations, you mentioned that Bill C-393 could violate the terms of TRIPS and WTO. I just want to push back a little bit on that. When I read the word “could”, I read “may or may not”, so I just wanted to ask what the probability is of Bill C-393 violating trade obligations. What does that look like? Can you give an example? What would the consequences be?

October 7th, 2010 / 11:55 a.m.
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NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is a critical issue. I find it interesting that in the conclusions it says that Bill C-393 would not overcome the systemic issues of health care delivery and disease prevention in the developing world.

That's almost an absurd statement. I don't know of any organization, group, or interested party that has ever made that claim. Nobody here is saying that this will be the one single solution to human suffering. At the same time, we have a bill that Parliament passed that has only been triggered once. I suppose we have a Parliament that likes to set up legislation that doesn't work or isn't used. We spent a lot of time and money on this, so there's a problem here.

Ms. Downie, you almost indicated that if this is changed, we're going to have all kinds of generic drugs flying out across the world and not be able to track them. But the reality is that the generic drugs must have different markings and different packaging. It has to be stated what country they're going to and the quantity.

What other mechanisms are necessary to protect? You would have a company publicly doing something fraudulent out there. What is the real risk? I don't understand, especially given the Rwanda situation, where we had one out there. What is the threat here? They're still going to be identified, the company still has to identify where they're going, and they're going to be tracked.

October 7th, 2010 / 11:45 a.m.
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Bloc

Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC

Are there other options that we could be exploring? In your concluding remarks, you stated that CAMR is only one of the tools that Canada uses. Are there other lesser known tools? NGOs maintain that the regime isn't working. This morning, I'd like us to try and answer the question as to why the regime is failing. You made it clear in your closing remarks that Bill C-393 will not result in more applications being filed under CAMR. Could we be exploring other options?

October 7th, 2010 / 11:40 a.m.
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Bloc

Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Like Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, I am also my party's health critic. Basically, she expressed what we are all feeling. Since the regime was first implemented, only one drug has been shipped overseas for humanitarian purposes. In an effort to resolve this issue, she tabled Bill C-393. However, you have looked at the proposed legislation and you indicated to us during your opening remarks that this option presents a number of risks, as we feel it does. In fact, you do not believe that the solution she is advocating is the right one.

As we consider Bill C-393, Mr. Chair, we also need to ask ourselves why a number of NGOs believe the regime is not working. We need to look at whether the regime can be made more flexible. That's why we came up with a list of about twenty potential witnesses, to help us conduct a more in-depth study and look beyond Bill C-393. I hope committee members will agree to this proposal, Mr. Chair. I really think that we need to take a closer look at this regime and ask the questions that need to be asked. It has been in place for some time now and the only example that applies is the case of Rwanda and Apotex.

Ms. Downie, you stated in your closing remarks that the regime is working. Several NGOs would disagree with your assessment and would argue that only one drug has been exported as a result of the CAMR mechanism. So then, how can you claim the regime is working?

October 7th, 2010 / 11:40 a.m.
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Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC

Yes. Indeed, it is a complex problem, there's no question about it.

Reference was made to the fact that some of the countries in Africa are getting their medicines from other, cheaper sources, and it's in many ways a challenge for Canada, because of labour costs and other things, to actually undercut those prices.

Another issue related to it is the consequence of our reputation with respect to our IP regime. I think that is something we can't overlook. I've read some of the testimony from S-232, the Senate bill, that's very similar to C-393.

One of the witnesses was Richard Dearden. He was representing Gowling Lafleur Henderson. He went so far as to say:

First, Bill S-232's one-licence regime is not authorized by flexibilities that are found in the TRIPS Agreement. Second, TRIPS Article 30's limited exceptions provision does not authorize Canada to abrogate its compulsory licence obligations.

I won't go on. I know that's not agreed to by those who feel that TRIPS is not violated, but I would like to hear from you, sir, from Foreign Affairs, on your interpretation of whether or not that is the case, that we are in danger of violating our TRIPS agreement with respect to C-393.