Bill C-2 (Historical)

Fair and Efficient Criminal Trials Act

An Act to amend the Criminal Code (mega-trials)

This enactment amends the Criminal Code to
(a) allow for the appointment of a judge as a case management judge;
(b) define the role and the powers of a case management judge;
(c) streamline the use of direct indictments preferred under section 577;
(d) allow for delayed severance orders;
(e) improve the protection of the identity of jurors;
(f) increase the maximum number of jurors who can hear the evidence on the merits; and
(g) provide that, in the case of a mistrial, certain decisions made during the trial are binding on the parties in any new trial.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-2, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (mega-trials), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Fair and Efficient Criminal Trials Act

[Robert Goguen, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, it is apparent that this bill introduces a practical solution and balances the interests and necessity of the efficient administration of justice in a fair way while respecting the rights of the accused.

From the hon. member's comments, I ponder if he is simply attempting to play politics with this issue. The government introduced this bill in November 2010. Not once during the last Parliament did the hon. member ask that this bill be expedited. Suddenly, there is a sense of urgency in his comments.

Believe me, the government would certainly have welcomed any co-operation from the opposition on our justice agenda. Now that the member's party, largely founded in Quebec, and the issue have come to the forefront and into the headlines, the member has discovered a new-found interest in this justice issue.

I would like to ask the member, will his new sense of co-operation extend to the rest of our justice legislation, or will his party only be supporting legislation that plays well for it politically, specifically in Quebec?

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague, the parliamentary secretary for justice, for the question and congratulate him on his appointment.

Of course, he is new to the position, so the question I think ignores the reality of what has happened and the role that I personally have played and, more importantly, that my party has played on getting justice bills through the House in an efficient fashion as opposed to the politics that his party has historically played.

It is really quite offensive the number of times that party has trotted out victims of crime in this country to use them as photo ops, as props. It did not do it just once in a number of these bills. I can think of several bills where it was done three times. The reason it was done three times, or there was the opportunity to do it three times, was because the government would prorogue Parliament or call an election in contravention of legislation that the Prime Minister himself shoved through this House. Therefore, there were three times that victims were trotted out and used as props for the government.

I did not come to this late. I have already told the story about the Shoker. It took me two and a half months of recommendations to the government to get it to agree. We only got it because we were coming near the end of the year last year and we got that through. However, I had suggested that over a two and a half month period before we got that one through. That one took precedence. This one was the next one. If we would have had enough time without the election intervening, I would have pushed this one through earlier as well.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Windsor for making reference in his comments to the terrible time that we have had in the province of Manitoba, which I suppose leads toward the argument for the need of this bill. Until now and until the time we get this bill passed, it does concern me that organized crime is laughing at us. It really is.

In my industry of construction, we have now learned that to a huge extent the bikers, especially, have infiltrated it as a perfect way to launder drug money. These guys have warehouses of $20 bills that they cannot use because they are hot dollars. They are called “labour pimps” because they become labour brokers. They contract out 20 or 30 illegal immigrants to legitimate contractors as cheap labour. They pay them $20 an hour with drug money, half the going rate, and then get reimbursed by the contractor with real dollars. It is ubiquitous across British Columbia. It is undermining the integrity of the entire tendering and contracting process in British Columbia because if contractors do not use the biker “labour pimps”, they will not win a contract because their labour costs will be legitimate while their labour costs are paid with drug money.

The biker trial, the “show trial”, in Manitoba collapsed under its own weight. Could the hon. member assure us that this bill that we have agreed to fast track and support will ameliorate this embarrassment where these bikers are thumbing their noses at Canadians knowing full well that we do not have the capacity to bring justice through our court system as it currently stands?

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Speaker, obviously I cannot give absolute assurance, but I will just use this one example that the parliamentary secretary herself raised.

In a great deal of the megatrials, time is spent on preliminary objections such as, has full disclosure been given by the prosecution, should this electronic surveillance material be allowed or excluded, and have there been infringements of the accused's Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

As it stands now, those motions generally are handled this way. Every single accused, or his or her counsel on his or her behalf, gets to argue. Oftentimes they are all arguing about the same evidence, has disclosure been given to accused A, B, C, D, E, F, G. They all get to make the argument and most of the time before different judges.

What this will do is consolidate all of them before the same judge, so there will not be the problem of conflicts in terms of decisions. As soon as there is a conflict wherein one judge says that there has been full disclosure and then judge D says that there has not been, it then becomes wide open for appeal and the Court of Appeal must resolve it. Therefore, by consolidating that it will certainly make the process more efficient and quite frankly, it will make it fair.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to participate in this debate on the fair and efficient criminal trials act, otherwise known as Bill C-2, which is intended to address, not only the issue of megatrials but what has come to be known as the megatrial phenomenon. This phenomenon usually involves a large amount of complex evidence, numerous charges against multiple accused, the need to call many witnesses, multiple motions on matters of law, evidence, remedy--usually the constitutionalization of criminal law finds expression in this regard--and the related roles of the police, the crown, the defence attorney, the jury--and we should remember that not all of these trials involve a jury--the trial judge and case management judge. These trials have become all-consuming, resulting in a backlog in the current system, excessive delays and often an increased risk of mistrial.

It has long been argued by stakeholders in the justice system that the government and Parliament need to engage themselves in the reform and refinement of this process, along with other actors in the system, so that we can properly address and redress a situation whereby what is at stake at this point is not only the fair and efficient administration of justice but the integrity of justice itself.

Statements made by the courts themselves and leading judicial officials have expressed concern about this problem for some time. For example, in a speech to the Empire Club on March 8, 2007, titled, “The Challenges We Face”, Chief Justice McLachlin stated that murder trials used to take five to seven days in the recent past but now they last five to seven months. She described these changes as giving rise to “urgent problems and incalculable costs”.

In a similar but much earlier speech on April 13, 1995. also to the Empire Club. entitled, “The Role of Judges”, former Chief Justice Antonio Lamer described the complexity and prolixity in legal proceedings as being “our greatest challenge and one that could render the justice system simply irrelevant unless it is solved”. One needs to take note of those words.

In a unanimous judgment of the Supreme Court in 2005 dealing with a particularly complex species of wiretap motion, the Supreme Court adopted a much earlier pronouncement of Justice Finlayson made in the Ontario Court of Appeal in 1992 to the effect that:

...“our criminal trial process” has become “bogged down” in an “almost Dickensian procedural morass” and that the public would soon “lose patience with our traditional adversarial system of justice.”

He might well have added, and has been added since, that the public loses confidence in the administration if not integrity of justice as a whole.

When I was the minister of justice, I worked with my provincial and territorial counterparts who not only expressed similar concerns but also sought to initiate what is before the House today in the form of a fair and efficient trials bill. I and my colleague, Jacques Dupuis, the minister of justice and public security in Quebec at the time, worked on this initiative along with our counterparts.

These concerns also found expression, for example, in the 2007 meeting of federal, provincial and territorial ministers responsible for justice and public safety in Winnipeg on November 15, 2007, when the following communiqué was issued:

Ministers also agreed with the recommendations from officials to improve the way large and complex trials are conducted. The officials recommended legislative amendments to reduce the risk of mistrials and address some of the difficulties associated with the management of mega-trials, among others.

It is important for us to appreciate, as we address this prospective legislation before us, the context and the causes that have brought us to this point. An understanding of those causes and the context will not only give us a better appreciation of the raison d'être for this bill, but also for the manner in which we need to approach this bill in Parliament and in our committee considerations.

Simply put, there are four major events that have played a rather transformative role in the development of the modern criminal trial process from what used to be a short and somewhat efficient examination of guilt or innocence that existed in the 1970s to the now much longer and more complex process that has been discussed and indeed critiqued in the statements to which I alluded above.

These four causal events and the related context are as follows. First, the adoption of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms had a transformative impact on our laws, if not our lives, and of which Chief Justice Lamer spoke of as ushering in a constitutional revolution in this country.

Second, the reform of the evidence law by the Supreme Court of Canada.

Third, the addition of many new complex statutory provisions to the Criminal Code and other related statutes.

Fourth, certain compelling social phenomenon, as evidenced in the development of organized crimes and their prosecutions in the 1990s and the immediate aftermath of 9/11 and the adoption of anti-terror legislation and related amendments to a number of pieces of legislation for that purpose.

I will now say a few words about each of these causes which will put what we have before us in context.

The first transformative event was the constitutionalization of criminal law and procedure resulting from the passage of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The charter articulated long-standing rights, added some new rights and, most important, introduced a set of remedies, which rights and remedies can be found in sections 7 to 14 of the charter.

In effect, this institutes a constitutional code of criminal procedure. These developments inevitably led to a broad range of procedural motions that had not previously existed in order to enforce the rights and remedies now embodied in the charter.

These motions were complex, both factually and legally. They took additional time to hear and resolve. So the criminal trial process began to become both more complex and prolonged.

I can give a number of different cases as examples, but I will take one right out of the LeSage-Code report. One of the case studies that they examined, the case of Fatima Khan, was a murder case involving allegations that the two accused had killed and dismembered their young child. The trial itself was relatively speedy, lasting about 35 court days. The preliminary inquiry had taken seven days.

The important point that needs to be appreciated here is the fact that the pretrial motions, resulting from the constitutionalization of criminal law and procedure, extended over a two and a half year period where many of the pretrial motions involved charter issues.

The second causal event that contributed to the long and complex process in the modern era was the decision of the Supreme Court of Canada to fundamentally reform the law of evidence. These reforms had the general effect, as the LeSage-Code report shows, of broadening, one might say, the scope of admissibility of evidence by replacing the old rules-based approach of common law with a much more flexible principles-based approach.

I can give a number of examples but for reasons of time I will limit myself to one. The hearsay rule is significantly changed, so that certain out of court statements that would never have been admissible under the pre-existing law, now became admissible. Also, the voluntariness test for confessions was also changed.

These significant changes to evidence law, like the changes in a constitutionalization of criminal law and procedure, led to their own set of motions, in addition to the new charter motion. These motions concerning the admissibility of evidence of common law were now characterized by much greater flexibility than the old rules-based approach.

I will now go to a third causal event, and that was the continuous stream of statutory amendments that took place at the same time as the above development with respect to the charter and with respect to evidentiary developments. Simply put, over the past 20 years, Parliament has constantly altered and added to the existing body of statute law found in the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act and the previous Young Offenders Act and Youth Criminal Justice Act.

The Criminal Code, it is not always appreciated, is now about double the size that it was only 30 years ago. The new legislation is increasingly complex, unfamiliar, untested, and this too has resulted in more lengthy and complex proceedings.

Finally, some of the new legislation was passed in relation to and expanded upon in a legislative and judicial manner, a social phenomenon of the last 20 years. I am speaking in particular of the gang related violence which began to increase in the nineties, especially in Quebec, which now has provided a trigger for the more immediate addressing of this issue today, to which my colleague has just spoken to, and the new criminal organizations provisions of the Criminal Code which were added at that time.

Similarly, there is a large number of new offences and new procedures relating to both law, evidence and constitutional considerations, as well as remedies resulting from the adoption of the anti-terrorist acts.

It can be seen that the criminal trial courts have had to absorb, in a word, a continuing almost explosion of new charter law and remedies, new common law evidence principles, new legislative procedures and new offences, and addressing new social phenomena over the past 20 to 30 years. It is hardly surprising then in these circumstances that what used to be referred to as the short, simple and somewhat efficient criminal trials of the seventies has been replaced by the long, complex and often inefficient criminal trials of the 21st century.

I would not wish to have it adversely inferred from my remarks that I am not in favour of these developments. I supported the advent of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the constitutionalization within it of criminal law and procedure and remedy. I supported the initiatives that arose from Supreme Court considerations of our law of evidence. Developments in the Criminal Code, to which I referred, were themselves warranted and the social phenomenon to which I was speaking also had to bring about those necessary changes and reforms in law procedure, evidence and remedy.

What we have to realize, however, is that the convergence of these four major transformative developments, of which I have been speaking, during a rather specific time in our recent history, has placed an enormous burden, particularly on the legal system and within it, specifically on the trial courts.

At this point I will speak to some of the considerations that have emerged from these four transformated events which, in effect, have identified or exacerbated certain weaknesses in our justice system. I will relate to simply three rather systemic or cultural tendencies, as the LeSage-Code report spoke of, that have themselves worsened and are not unrelated to these four transformated causal events, and which have to be borne in mind as well as we move with respect to creating a more fair and efficient criminal justice system to deal with this megatrial phenomenon.

The first systemic cultural observation, as set forth in the LeSage-Code report, is that the new charter remedies, the new evidence law, the motions, the statutory procedures, et cetera, all that I summarized above, share one common feature. They generally involve pretrial proceedings, in particular the development of elaborate pretrial motions practice which has had the effect of thereby delaying the trial and making it more complex.

A second broad cultural phenomenon that has emerged from this intense period of law reform, as summarized above, is that the system has become both error prone and fearful of error, in a kind of ironic dialectic. Simply, the avalanche of new and complex legal procedures, whether from the charter or from statutory amendments to the Criminal Code, or from reform of the law of evidence, has created a legal system with difficult and nuanced decision points. It is not surprising, therefore, that there are errors that occur in this new environment. At the same time, it has made judges, lawyers, et cetera, more cautionary and fearful because of this error-prone impulse. So, that too has helped to contribute to overly long trials. In fact, it suggests the need for judges with real expertise who will be effectively able to manage these cases, especially at the pretrial stage, and that underpins the importance of the case management judge, the reform of which is in the legislation itself.

The third and last of these broad systemic and cultural changes that I wish to refer to, though I cannot enlarge upon it but I think it will have a popular resonance, is the significant increase in animosity and acrimony between counsel in these proceedings, again something that the LeSage-Code report has commented and elaborated upon. Simply put, this development results, itself, in the prolonging of the trial process as the increased adversarial action on a personal level tends to result in the trial process becoming more acrimonious and fewer matters being resolved within the legal process or settled outside of it. So, here too all the stakeholders have a role to play to encourage the judiciary to insist on higher standards of civility in their courts, for the various law societies to take a strong disciplinary role in this area and for legal aid societies to exercise their statutory mandate to grant certificates to those counsels who can deliver high, effective and efficient legal services.

In closing, let me now turn to some of the specific provisions in the legislation itself. Let me begin first with the definition of megatrials. Although the whole purpose and rationale of this legislation is to address complex megatrials, the legislation itself lacks a definition of what constitutes a megatrial. The proposed section 551.1, as the Canadian Bar Association recently pointed out in its comments on this legislation, would permit an application by either party or the court to have a case management judge appointed on any trial, no matter how simple. This lack of a more specific definition has the potential to result in an overuse of such applications and appointments. It could then drain judicial resources and result in cases that do not need the detailed case management that the bill envisages in having case management judges assigned.

If time had permitted, I would have referred to the other considerations, which are as follows. First is the need for the appointment of a case management judge. The definition of his powers has been referred to by the parliamentary secretary and my colleagues, so I need not go into this, other than to say there needs to be close collaboration between that judge and the trial judge.

Second is that the bill streamlines the use of direct indictments and allows for delayed severance orders related to recommendations in that regard. Third is the proposal to increase the protection of jurors and to increase the maximum number of jurors. That, too, may require certain consideration at committee stage. Finally, there are the matters of mistrial.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague's opinion and views I have the utmost respect for. He speaks from vast experience and knowledge of the criminal justice system when he shares his views today on the problems we face with these megatrials collapsing under their own weight.

I am wondering if my colleague has taken note and observed the problem in the province of Manitoba of actively trying to curb the activities of the criminal element of bikers. Some of the worst biker wars the country has ever seen, second only perhaps to Montreal, were playing out on the streets of Winnipeg. We should stop calling them biker gangs as it has kind of a cachet to it. This is one gang of organized criminals fighting another gang of organized criminals over the same turf.

After years and years of detailed investigation, when we finally compiled enough evidence to lay charges, 30 and 40 charges at a time, we built a separate courthouse. We were so concerned about the safety of witnesses, et cetera, we built an independent, free-standing courthouse. I believe it cost $28 million for the courthouse alone. Because of the bogging down of proceedings, et cetera, this trial collapsed under its own weight, the courthouse was never even used and not a single person ever gave testimony because the lawyers played the system to the point where the criminals thumbed their nose at us and walked away.

I would ask my colleague to share with us whether he is satisfied that the bill we are going to give speedy passage to today would satisfy the concerns that led to the farce in Manitoba where the bikers won and the public lost.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to respond to that important question.

As minister of justice, I worked with my counterpart, the provincial attorney general, in Manitoba and I made express reference in my remarks to the important decision taken at the 2007 meeting that took place in Winnipeg of federal, provincial and territorial ministers of justice on the need, as was already expressed then in Winnipeg, four years ago, to address and redress these concerns.

That is why I am pleased that such an initiative has belatedly, in my view, but finally and necessarily come before us. However, I think we also have to proceed with an appreciation that if we pass the bill simply as it is, we may not incorporate some of the more important concerns and considerations to which I was referring in my remarks and to which I will make specific reference now.

I agree, of course, that the principle of having a case management judge who can focus the issues, streamline the pretrial motions and make suggestions to the parties are necessary in the context of a megatrial. The bill's proposals, if used properly, could assist in the administration of such a megatrial.

However, the proposal, to discuss just one, to allow the case management judge to make rules binding on the parties are somewhat too far-reaching and would, I believe, have some undesirable effects. For more comments on this, I would refer everyone to the LeSage-Code report, but this should be considered at committee. It is also vital that the trial judge and no other judge makes rules regarding the admissibility of evidence and that the proper relationship exist between the trial judge and the case management judge.

I also want to say with respect to jurors, that while the reform proposal has merit, it should be limited only to those trials specifically defined as megatrials and not all trials and consideration should be given to a provision that allows a trial judge to convert a jury trial to a judge-alone trial on consent of all parties when the jury composition falls below the minimum requirement of 10. This would promote efficiency and negate the need for costly mistrials.

On the issue of mistrials, while there is an important proposal to make certain rulings in the previous mistrial binding on the new trial, it is important—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Order, please. I appreciate the member's enthusiasm and interest in sharing the information, but we do need to get on. I think there may be other questions.

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, regarding the hon. member's comments on the exercise of the judicial decision being far-reaching and on the appointment of a case management judge, would he not agree that independence of the judiciary is a basic tenet of our free and democratic society? Therefore, it is a reasonable clause to allow discretion to remain within both a case management judge or the trial judge who brings that case management judge into the matter.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the issue is not the independence of the judiciary. Of course, that is taken as a given. The issue is the relationship between the case management judge and the trial judge, and when the case management judge is brought into the process, which should be done at the earliest possible moment. The issue is having consideration that, when it involves a provincial court judge, he or she may not have the authority of a superior court judge to make certain rulings and have constitutional considerations.

I was talking about the relationship between the case management judge and the presiding trial judge and the need to refine those relationships in the course of this prospective legislative where it is appropriate and able to do so.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Mount Royal has given a fascinating discourse. I do not think I have heard anyone refer casually to an ironic dialectic in this place. I am grateful and I would ask him to expand on any of his points in the time remaining.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as time did not permit, I would like to make some reference to the question of costs as it can also be a drain on the system.

This particular legislation may not always appreciate some of the unintended consequences or even of necessary amendments with respect to the burdens on the system itself. It may require other actors, the federal and provincial governments, to involve themselves with respect to the proper allocation of resources such as the judiciary, crown attorneys and the involvement of probably the most senior attorneys in this regard, with respect to the legal aid and ensuring appropriate access to justice, we need to also look at the various models, and the provincial attorney general would do so, to see where the best case management models have occurred and what kind of changes would be needed, not only with regard to costs.

To conclude, if this legislation is going to work in the way we need it to work, then it is going to involve every actor in the legal system in general and the criminal justice system in particular. It is going to involve each of these actors to see how they can work in a most effective and collaborative model.

I do not think the reforms are going to end with this piece of legislation. As I said, federal and provincial governments, as well as our own Parliament are going to have to look beyond this legislation for the necessary reforms that will have to take place.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since this is my first speech in the House, I would like to begin by thanking the people of Ahuntsic for placing their trust in me and re-electing me for a third term. I would like to assure them that I will do what I have always done: I will prove worthy of that trust. I am very proud to represent them here. I would also like to thank my family members who have always supported me during my election campaigns and my many terms in office. As we all know, to be a woman in politics who has children, you need a good husband and a good mother. Finally, I would like to thank my entire team, the election committee and the volunteers, as well as the members of the Bloc Québécois, who worked so hard during the election campaign.

Before speaking about Bill C-2, I would like to tell the people of my riding and all Quebeckers, the 24% of men and women who voted for the Bloc Québécois, that my colleagues and I will make every effort to make their voices heard in this House and to protect their interests. I will also do my best to establish the ties of solidarity needed to allow our people to become what it should be, a nation that is the master of its own destiny, with all the authority necessary to take charge of its economic, social and cultural development.

Bill C-2 is essentially the former Bill C-53 from the previous Parliament. Members of the Bloc Québécois were in favour of this bill and, clearly, we still are, even more so because we understand the importance of mega-trials. Quebec is unique in that it has a large number of mega-trials. Recently, there have been more arrests on aboriginal reserves.

I would like to first like to make a clarification. The bill in question respects the Government of Quebec's jurisdiction in the area of justice. In our opinion, there is no encroachment on jurisdictions. This bill seeks to implement a number of measures to simplify mega-trials. These include streamlining the use of direct indictments; improving the protection of jurors’ identity, which is very important, since criminals involved in this type of trial very often tend to use intimidation; increasing the maximum number of jurors; and, in the case of a mistrial, providing that certain decisions made during the trial are binding on the parties in any new trial. One of the bill's key measures is the appointment of a judge who is specifically responsible for managing the mega-trial in question.

However, this bill does not address one of Justice Brunton's criticisms. On May 31, he freed 31 criminal bikers because they could not be tried in a timely manner. This is questionable. The message we are sending to criminals is to come to Quebec because there is not enough money or resources to put them on trial, so they will be freed. For example, Operation SharQC, which cost millions of dollars in police operations, resulted in 31 bikers being let go. That is absurd.

One of Justice Brunton's main criticisms is the obvious need for judges in the Superior Court. But Superior Court appointments are made by the federal government. We feel it is time to free the Quebec government and the governments of the other provinces from this quasi-colonial dependence concerning Superior Court appointments. Quebec is not master of its domain in this area and neither are the other provinces. This applies to everyone. Consequently, the federal government is directly responsible for the disastrous release of 31 bikers on May 31.

And we feel that the federalist politicians in the House are silent on this topic. Are they not somewhat uncomfortable maintaining provincial dependence in this area, given that federal appointment of judges dates from a quasi-colonial era?

If the Brunton decision is upheld on appeal, the Government of Quebec, and Quebec's justice minister in particular, should be held responsible for the judicial disaster of May 31. It is their responsibility to ensure that there are enough lawyers and resources to have trials happen within a reasonable time frame.

However, the facts clearly show that the Quebec government does not yet have all the tools needed to completely control justice within its borders. For example, Quebec's justice minister was recently in a position where he had to practically beg for the support of every single parliamentarian to have Bill C-2 passed quickly.

This demonstrates how dependent the Quebec government is in administering justice within its borders when, we feel, it should have complete responsibility in this area. I will say it again: this dependence is irrefutably demonstrated by the fact that the federal government appoints judges. Do these types of relationships need to be maintained in order for Canada to continue to exist? Will it someday be possible to free ourselves from these counterproductive relationships that belong to another era?

The majority of my colleagues in the House would like Quebec to stay in Canada. But could they imagine for a few seconds or a few minutes a Canada where there would be more respect for nations, namely the people of Quebec whom they claim to recognize as a nation within a united Canada? In fact, I would like to see that respect in all the provinces.

I invite my colleagues to think about that. Are we to continue accepting as normal the fact that the federal government appoints judges in cases where the provinces should be responsible for the management and administration of justice? This obviously includes the nation of Quebec, as we were recognized here as a nation. The provinces could appoint their own judges and make decisions about their judicial resources without having to beg Ottawa for the authority to administer their own justice system in a normal way.

Not only were the people of Quebec astounded by the release of these 31 bikers, but in the policing community, people were not very happy about having worked for nothing and having paid millions of dollars for the police operations. As a private citizen and the member for Ahuntsic, I found this to be mind-boggling. Having worked in criminology and with the police on a regular basis and knowing this type of individual, I can say that they laughed their heads off. The justice system came across as rather pathetic.

I invite my colleagues to think about that. We will support this bill, which is a step in the right direction, but the heart of the problem is that the provinces and the nation of Quebec should be able to make decisions with respect to their judges. I am not just talking about their appointment, but also about how many should be appointed. The problem in Quebec was that there were not enough judges, not enough lawyers, not enough courtrooms and not enough cases. That is a serious problem that runs quite deep. We have to take this further than just one simple bill, no matter how good it is. We are not against the bill and we plan to vote in favour of it.

In closing, public safety is not just about putting people behind bars or passing a few bills; it is also about providing the necessary resources to enforce the law. Creating laws is one thing, but enforcing them is another.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-2, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (mega-trials) be read the second time and referred to a committee.