Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to have an opportunity to speak in the House this evening to this important legislation, Bill C-51, which amends the Witness Protection Program Act and makes other consequential amendments.
This is an important public safety tool, as has been mentioned by a number of members on both sides of the House. It is a tool that enhances the opportunity to prosecute crimes, particularly, crimes that undermine the security of our communities. such as organized crime and gang crime. Where do we need witness protection? We need witness protection when the criminals we are seeking to prosecute are prepared to use further criminal acts to retaliate and to exert violence or other forms of repression on people who co-operate with the authorities to try to make our communities safer.
This really gets at the heart of what we need to do to protect our communities. We see this across the country. We see it in prisons, in the cases of gangs. We see it in our communities as well. We see it in the case of organized criminal organizations, such as the Hells Angels, which have been very active in various parts of the country. We see it in the drug trade, in general. We also we see it in other security-type activities and very significant terrorist measures, such as the actions in the Air India disaster and the need for a strong witness protection program to fully prosecute those guilty of engaging in that enormous frightening terrorist event.
Improvements to the witness protection program have been sought for many years. Since 2007, our party has been calling, specifically, for better coordination of the federal and provincial programs and for better overall funding for the program. These demands were repeated in 2009 and again in 2012. Specifically, the member for Trinity—Spadina was concerned about the inability of the police forces to get witnesses in the bad summer of shootings at the block party on Danzig Street, for example, and the difficulty that the police had in finding witnesses to come forward.
We do support theses measures.
I do not sit on the public safety committee anymore, although I did a few years go. I did sit in one or two of the meetings, listening to some of the witnesses on this program. There were acknowledged significant improvements being made to expand the coverage of the program of eligibility. It is very important for national security that national defence or other public safety departments will be able refer witnesses to the program. It extends the period of emergency protection and clears up some technical problems.
We are very disappointed that the bill does not include more of the recommendations, for example from the Air India inquiry, such as a more transparent and accountable process for admissions to the program. We are also very concerned that local police departments will have the support necessary to ensure that witnesses can come forward in a gang situation, for example.
We have heard again and again tonight that there is a lack of recognition of the high cost borne by local police departments and the concern about the adequacy of funding.
We know what the RCMP officials said at the hearings. They said that they were satisfied they could handle the problem. However, I have a problem with that. The only statistics that have been floating around are from 2012. They noted that out of the 108 individuals who sought the protection and were considered for the program, only 30 were accepted. That is a pretty significant turndown rate.
What was the fallout from that? How many cases did not go to court because there was no protection offered to those witnesses?
We had the Minister of Public Safety himself acknowledging that the cost of the program is one of the criteria used to determine whether someone is accepted. He diminished it as being only one of the seven, but the cost of the program is one of the criteria, and we have two-thirds of them being turned down. We would be increasing the eligibility opportunities, so more people could apply in more circumstances.
We hear from the other side, and we ourselves are concerned, about gangs and other forms of organized criminal activity. What we see from all that is that there is going to be significant pressure on this program to admit more people, and the resources are not going to be there, or the lack of resources could be used, because it is one of the criteria, to turn down people who seek admission to the program.
I am not saying that every person who asks for witness protection is entitled to it. Do not get me wrong. I am not taking some sort of extreme position. I am doing my best to be reasonable with respect to this matter, because what we are seeking is a bill that is going to work. The problem I have, despite the quotes we have heard from the hon. members opposite, and I am not saying they are making them in bad faith, is that they seem to be a bit selective in leaving out the concerns raised by witnesses at the hearings.
I want to emphasize the comments and statements of the Canadian Association of Police Boards. Who are they? We heard from the Canadian Police Association. This is all the police officers in Canada. I do not know if we heard from the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police. I do not see any quotes from them being raised here.
The police boards are the civilian boards that are appointed by the communities and are responsible for oversight of the policing activities in their areas and the safety of their communities. Obviously, the enforcement is carried out by the police officers themselves, but the police boards are responsible for how these communities operate. We talked about small communities, but they are even in big communities.
The president of the Canadian Association of Police Boards, on March 19 of this year, testified before the committee and said:
Without the availability of sufficient funding, our ability to take advantage of the program will be limited. In places like Toronto, that's a big problem because, as you know, we're dealing with serious violent crimes and often rely on witnesses from the community, not informants and others but witnesses from the community. Their needs may not be significant, as was mentioned. All they may need is a little bit of protection, but that requires that sufficient funding be available for us to be able to do it. That, for us, is a problem.
Elsewhere in testimony, the same individual said:
...our chiefs have said to us that their ability to access fully, proportionate to their need, is not there.
That is in Ontario. We have also had other representations. Andy McGrogan from the Medicine Hat Police Service said that, provincially, they are working on witness protection legislation as well, but right now they are looking at how to absorb these costs. He said:
If you look at a community such as ours, the protection of one witness, if funded through the municipality, has a major impact on our budget. We're watching this legislation and really trying to determine where it's going to unfold at this time.... We totally understand that. How it's going to impact us financially, of course, is our biggest concern.
I have only one minute to complete my remarks, but I want to say that we support this legislation, but we have concerns that we do not have a stand-alone organization, which we have asked for. We do not have adequate funding, which we have asked for, and no commitment to it, and there seems to be a failure to recognize that it is what has to happen.
I would be very pleased to respond to any questions or comments that members opposite, or my colleague, might have.
