Bill S-16 (Historical)

Tackling Contraband Tobacco Act

An Act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in contraband tobacco)

This enactment amends the Criminal Code to create a new offence of trafficking in contraband tobacco and to provide for minimum penalties of imprisonment for repeat offenders.

Tackling Contraband Tobacco Act

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

When this matter was last before the House, the hon. Attorney General had the floor. If he wishes to continue with his remarks at this time, he has twelve and a half minutes remaining.

The hon. Attorney General.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I was very pleased in the time I had to conclude all the remarks that I wanted to make about this legislation, but I certainly want to be available in case there are any questions. I feel I probably have answered all the questions that could possibly come forward on this bill, but just in case there are any, I want to make myself available.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister if he would give us some indication of the organizations that he and his department consulted with in order to develop Bill S-16.

The whole question of contraband tobacco affects other jurisdictions and a number of organizations. How this legislation was conceived and how it will be carried forward are important.

In that respect, I wonder if he could give the House some indication of the consultations that were conducted in order to get to this point.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, interestingly enough, we have brought in many pieces of legislation covering various aspects and different issues within the Criminal Code and indeed all issues as they relate to crime in this country and to the role that victims play.

One of the issues that is continuously raised with me is the question of contraband tobacco. I have heard it, quite frankly, from my constituents going back a number of years and in my discussions with law enforcement agencies over the years and when I have been at round tables and discussed justice issues. People have brought it to my attention when I have gone across the country. This is one of those subjects that has certainly received a lot of attention, and I have had a lot of representations made to me.

Coming forward with this legislation is entirely appropriate. That is why I believe this legislation will be so well received. Having extra options for the police and crown attorneys, concurrent jurisdiction between the federal and the provincial attorneys general with respect to prosecution, putting it in the Criminal Code and sending out the message that this kind of activity will not be tolerated in Canada are entirely appropriate.

I was pleased with all the input that we had on this, and this legislation is a result of all that input.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in regard to this bill, obviously there are provisions that are currently within the Excise Act that are being added to the Criminal Code. He mentioned how the federal and provincial attorneys general could work better to fight against organized crime to tackle some of these joint jurisdictional issues.

I do serve on the justice committee. Certainly, there would be a lot of process for further consultation and discussion about the merits of the bill. I would like to hear the minister speak to why this needs to get to committee, why the committee needs to examine the bill and why this legislation needs to go forward as soon as possible.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that certainly is a good question. Again, I want to thank the member for his input and contributions to the justice committee. He has certainly been a positive addition to that group of individuals who are working so hard to come forward and support legislation to better protect victims and address concerns within the criminal justice system.

He points out, quite correctly, that what we have done here is we have expanded beyond the Excise Act. By putting it in the Criminal Code, we do not repeal the former in favour of the latter; it will be in both pieces of legislation. This certainly gives more options to law enforcement agencies across the country.

I can tell him that I have had, for instance, members of the OPP say to me that when they came across contraband tobacco, they would turn it over to the RCMP for prosecution under the federal legislation. Again, what we are saying with this piece of legislation is that they do not necessarily have to get the RCMP involved. The OPP and local law enforcement agencies can come forward with the information and it can be prosecuted by a provincially appointed crown attorney, at the same time preserving the federal jurisdiction in this area.

We are adding one more significant tool to the fight against contraband tobacco. I would like to see this bill get to committee as quickly as possible to have the committee take a further look at this important piece of legislation.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciated the minister’s remarks about contraband and the problem we are now facing.

We know that when we are talking about contraband, we are also talking very often about organized groups and the impact on young people and those who are trying to get hold of cigarettes or other things more easily.

In terms of information, what has been done and what is planned in order to raise public awareness, particularly about the effects and the impact of cigarettes and contraband cigarettes?

We must not think only about the loss of revenue for the government. We must focus on the organization built up around contraband, which is inconsistent with basic principles, and the health impact of tobacco smoke. When people try to get cigarettes or other things as quickly and as cheaply as possible, we know very well that that is when consumption increases.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the hon. member that organized crime is exactly who is running this business in this country. These are individuals who come together for the purpose of bringing in or distributing contraband tobacco in this country. Very often their target is young people they try to induce with inexpensive contraband tobacco. The tragedy is that tobacco use is the number one preventable cause of death. We know the effects tobacco smoking has on individuals, and we know that the effects can be prevented and death can be avoided by non-use and by people stopping the use of these products.

I mentioned a couple of times today other aspects of the government's strategy to discourage tobacco use in this country. I made reference in remarks earlier today to changes to the labelling of cigarettes and to what the provinces are doing in terms of making sure that cigarettes do not get into the hands of young people.

We all have an interest in this. It is an area that desperately needs more attention, more regulation and more tools to combat it. This piece of legislation is an important component of that and is certainly a positive step forward.

In terms of directing this to make sure that young people do not get involved in this kind of activity, and recognizing that these are very sophisticated individuals who get involved in this kind of activity as part of organized criminal gangs, I agree that this is exactly who we have to target and what we have to do.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I will be rising shortly to expand on some of these issues.

I just want to say that there is no question that this initiative is a necessary one. It is an important initiative. It will also require some dedicated funding. I wondered if the minister could perhaps give this House some indication of the money that has been allocated to ensure that the police officials, the authorities, whoever would be involved in this, would be able to carry out these activities successfully.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I touched on the tobacco strategy. It is led by my colleague, the Minister of Health. The provinces and law enforcement agencies within the provincial jurisdictions are involved.

One thing I pointed out and that I think is an important component is the 50-agent contingent within the RCMP that would be dedicated to this whole area of contraband tobacco. That is a terrific and important utilization of the resources of the RCMP and is a step forward. Again, it is part of a greater package to go against contraband tobacco.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to Bill S-16. It is an important piece of legislation, as I indicated moments ago when I asked the minister a question. The question, of course, was with respect to resources, whether it be the RCMP or whichever police force is involved, and if these enforcement agencies would have the resources necessary to carry out the added responsibilities that are part of this legislation.

The minister did not answer my question with the kind of specific information I was looking for. That is part of my concern about Bill S-16. We have a piece of legislation, an act to amend the Criminal Code to deal with trafficking in contraband tobacco. It is an important issue, and I will lay out why I think it is important. It deals with an issue that is vexing, to say the least. My concern is that the Conservative government is talking tough in the legislation and in the words it uses, but when it comes to actually bringing resources to bear to support those agencies it expects to now carry out these added responsibilities, I am concerned that the government is once again falling short.

This minister, in particular, and members of the government, have been criticized for not vetting legislation in terms of whether it would be subject to constitutional challenges in the Supreme Court. The government has been found at fault for not having done that. It is a requirement of the Minister of Justice when it comes to all pieces of legislation.

That is a problem. So too is the fact that the government says that it is going to do all these things with respect to justice issues and will crack down, but it seems incapable of putting the necessary resources in place to see that whoever gets the responsibility handed to them, be it the provinces, or in this case, the law enforcement agencies, has the resources necessary to carry them out.

Let me say at the outset, as many of my colleagues have said and will say this evening, that we support moving this legislation forward to committee so that we will be able to bring some of the organizations, experts and different jurisdictions before committee to ask them some of the questions I will raise tonight.

Flaws in the language in this legislation have already been identified. I hope that, for once, the Conservative government will recognize that this is such an important issue as it relates to this country that it will be amenable to making the kinds of amendments necessary to clean up those issues.

I want to talk a bit about why this is so important from a health and safety standpoint and about the forgone revenue for the country. I want to talk about the question of border security. Where are the threats in terms of contraband tobacco?

We have heard a number of comments from government members that would seem to suggest that the sole focus of the problem is first nations in Quebec and Ontario. Is that, in fact, the truth? Is that the case, or is it an unfortunate stereotype that exists on the government side that has not been sufficiently delved into to make sure that we are not heading in the wrong direction?

I asked the minister who he consulted. One of the groups was first nations. As we know, the manufacturing sites for contraband tobacco are generally found close to the border in both Quebec and southern Ontario. Some of the transit points have been identified as first nations communities. If that is where some of the activity is focused, then my question is whether the government sat down with the first nations communities to work together to come up with a comprehensive piece of legislation that talks about the issue from the ground up in a responsible, mature, holisitic fashion.

Provincial jurisdictions have been trying to deal with this issue, as have corner store associations and many health groups. These people need to be consulted. We need to bring these experts forward so that we can talk about it at committee.

First, let me talk about health and safety issues. We have seen the studies, and we know that there is a correlation between the price of tobacco and usage. That is why even though provincial governments do not want to increase taxes, they increase taxes on tobacco, not only as a revenue source but perhaps, most importantly, as a way of discouraging tobacco use. It has been found to be very effective, and the data clearly shows that.

Tobacco seriously harms Canadians. There are hundreds of millions or billions of dollars spent every year dealing with the effect of tobacco on Canadians. That is something we need to do everything we possibly can to deal with.

Governments are using awareness campaigns and warnings and various restrictions on tobacco packaging. People can go into a store, and tobacco products are hidden from view. That has been seen to reduce usage. Keeping advertising off television and out of newspapers and magazines has been seen to be an effective measure in reducing usage.

It is extremely important that governments use every single tool at their disposal to deal with this. What a conundrum. Governments increase taxation on tobacco products and restrict advertising. They insist that warnings labels be put on the packaging by manufacturers to ensure that they do their part in dissuading people from usage.

They made it clear that minors are not able to purchase tobacco products and they try to enforce that, yet at the same time, there is a proliferation of contraband tobacco getting into this country in various ways that makes all of those efforts go by the way.

Again, the issue with respect to health and safety is clear to us. It is clear to Canadians. The government must do everything in its power to try to discourage at every opportunity the use especially in young people. That is where the focus has been and has to be in trying to prevent young people from beginning to use tobacco products.

I understand that it is difficult to put an exact figure on the revenue lost from contraband tobacco, but it has been suggested by the Canadian Chamber of Commerce in 2008 that governments have lost between $1.5 billion and nearly $2.5 billion as a result of illegal tobacco products. That is revenue that governments would have had in order to provide the services that Canadians so desperately need.

We talked a moment ago about a motion that was brought forward in terms of providing services to Canadians with disabilities to access employment, to access housing, to access support to services so they may contribute in their communities. Those are revenues that we forgo, that could be used in this area, as a result of the sale of illegal tobacco products. It is incumbent upon us to do something about that.

The bill goes through that in a number of respects and we are going to talk a bit more about that. As I said, the bill specifically addresses contraband tobacco. According to the RCMP, contraband tobacco is any tobacco product that does not comply with the provisions of all applicable federal and provincial statutes. This includes the importation, stamping, marking, manufacturing, distributing and payment of duties and taxes.

At present, contraband tobacco offences can only be prosecuted under the Excise Act of 2001, or various general provisions within the Criminal Code. Bill S-16 would make changes, amendments and additions to the Criminal Code so that police forces are now authorized to take action against these offences. That is extremely important and we would support this.

I want to get to the issue that I raised early on, the fact that the government once again is failing to recognize that the funding needs to be in place in order to make sure that, following these fine words and these honourable changes to the law, the law enforcement agencies are able to carry out their functions.

It has been suggested that 50% of contraband tobacco comes through one port, the Port of Vancouver, from China. As I said earlier, I know there are manufacturing facilities near the border of Quebec and Ontario and that has been discussed.

The government, apparently, has decided to ignore the fact that much more, approximately 50%, of all contraband tobacco comes not from traditional sources or other countries but from China, and it comes through one port, the port of Vancouver. The problem is that there are no inspectors left at the port of Vancouver to deal with this issue.

We know that in the past two budgets, the government has cut hundreds of millions of dollars from the Canada Border Services Agency. This means that there are hundreds fewer front-line officers in place at the borders to deal with this contraband product. That is just one agency; that does not take into consideration the cuts to the RCMP and other law enforcement agencies over the past two budgets. Tens of millions of dollars have been cut from the budgets. The budgets have been reduced for these law enforcement agencies that, as a result of Bill S-16, are now going to be expected to do more.

That is why I asked the minister that question. I will ask him again and I know he will be asked the question again when the matter goes to committee. How does he expect these law enforcement organizations to carry out the added responsibilities included in this bill? They are extremely important responsibilities, let us be clear, but they are responsibilities that are being piled on top of other responsibilities. At the same time that these agencies are losing hundreds of millions of dollars, they are losing hundreds of employees and the capacity to carry out this important work. That just does not fit. To me, that just does not make any sense and I have not heard an explanation from the government.

Let me point out a couple of things in that respect. The 2013-14 Public Safety Report on Plans and Priorities announced a decrease of $20.3 million to deal with counterfeiting crime and a $2.4-million decrease for national security. The department itself stated the following in its risk analysis:

That the Government Operations Centre...infrastructure may be unable to support a coordinated response to large-scale or multiple significant events affecting the national interest.

That current policies and strategies may be insufficient to address the evolution of organized crime.

Again, we are dealing with an important piece of legislation that tries to get at an important problem, whether it is terrorism or, in this case, contraband tobacco coming from other countries and from within, and we are not giving law enforcement organizations the capacity to properly enforce what Bill S-16 is asking them to do. That is irresponsible. I hope the minister and members on the government side are going to be able to answer some of those questions when the bill goes to committee.

[François Pilon, NDP, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his very fine speech.

He told us that there had been many budget cuts. I would like him to go farther and tell us whether he thinks that in committee, the opposition will be able to convince the Conservatives to put in place the necessary funding to enforce this bill, which, after all, is a good bill, provided the necessary funding is forthcoming.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I have been in politics now for 16 years and so I am obviously, by nature, an optimist.

The member asked if I thought the official opposition was going to be able to encourage the government to put resources into Bill S-16 so that it can do what the government claims it can do. Well, time will tell.

I know that I and other members will do their best to persuade the minister and members of that committee to recognize the fact that the Conservatives have cut money out of those departments and law enforcement agencies for what they do now. To then expect them to just carry on and fulfill these important duties without attaching some dollars to it, frankly, is naive. As I suggested earlier, it is more than just a little bit irresponsible.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this legislation, which affects something important in our lives, must also bring us justice, and justice here includes the appearance of justice.

Essentially—my distinguished colleague will be able to give us his comments, as well as the Minister of Justice, if he wakes up a bit—by means of this bill, we do not wish to punish just petty troublemakers and traffickers in contraband tobacco, but we also want to attack the leadership of organized crime.

In what way in particular does this bill have a weakness with regard to the destruction of major organized crime? We no longer want the leaders of the Mafia to have a feeling of impunity or to think they can do whatever they wish. We want to put an end to that.

Why does this bill have a weakness in that respect, particularly when we see police strength reduced?

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that member is right when he says that this is a very serious problem. It is a vexing problem for all of us in this country, and we need to find the solution.

I asked the minister earlier who he had consulted with and who his department had been working with in order to try to come up with the legislation and the best strategy to implement the legislation. He informed me that he talked to a few people here and there, some police officers and so on.

I am glad he did. I was thinking about complex strategies to deal with a very serious problem, as the member's question suggested. For example, there is a leading recommendation from the National Coalition Against Contraband Tobacco that strongly recommended the government engage in collaboration with the provinces and first nations. Those are the people directly involved not only in enforcement but also in dealing with the effects of the distribution of contraband tobacco.

I would be disappointed if I thought the minister had not consulted with the provinces and first nations to find a comprehensive solution for these problems.