Bill C-425 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Citizenship Act (honouring the Canadian Armed Forces)

This enactment amends the Citizenship Act to require the Minister, on application, to reduce by one year the required years of residence in Canada to grant citizenship to any permanent resident who is a member of the Canadian Armed Forces who has signed a minimum three-year contract and who has completed basic training.
It also amends section 9 of the Act to provide that an individual is deemed to have made an application for renunciation of their Canadian citizenship or is deemed to have withdrawn their application for Canadian citizenship, if they engage in an act of war against the Canadian Armed Forces.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We will reconvene.

I'm going to make a ruling on the point of order. I want to thank Ms. James, Ms. Freeman, Mr. Weston, Mr. Dykstra, Ms. Sims, Mr. Menegakis, Mr. Giguère, and Ms. Sitsabaiesan for their comments on this point of order.

I'm going to give you my decision on the point of order that was made. Once a decision is made by the committee, the committee cannot come back on a decision unless that is unanimously agreed by its members. I refer to the good book of Madam O'Brien and Mr. Bosc, page 582-583. On Tuesday April 23, 2013, the committee adopted a report recommending to the House that it be granted the power to expand the scope of Bill C-425. The committee already made a decision on that, so that particular matter should no longer be debated. That information in the motion is only there to outline the reason of the extension, which is required by Standing Order 97.1(1) and was referred to by Mr. Giguère in his comments.

We're not voting on that reason. The motion is asking for a 30-day extension and this is strictly what is before the committee. Mr. Giguère made reference to Standing Order 97.1(1) and pointed out that it stipulates that a reason should be included in the request.

The first two sentences of the second paragraph of the motion outline the reason for this request, so the motion is in order. Mr. Giguère's point is therefore out of order.

That is my ruling. We will proceed to the main motion.

Ms. Sitsabaiesan—

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I really do appreciate that, Chair, and I apologize that I will be repeating myself somewhat, but I was screaming over here. I understand that we're all very frustrated by this process right now. I will just go over what I was trying to say.

Basically, this motion exists only because this committee needs to ask the House to expand the bill, and we cannot do that, as we have come to see, without our then passing this motion to extend by 30 sitting days. Therefore, our committee requests an extension because we need to ask that the House grant the power during consideration of Bill C-425 to expand the scope of the bill. As a result, we cannot speak about the request for an extension without speaking about the reason we have asked for an extension. That, Chair, is because we need to expand the scope, and I think as a result we are absolutely allowed to speak about expanding the scope.

What are the things that have called this committee to be in a position where we are expanding the scope? We know as members of this committee that—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Just give me a minute.

Looking at the motion, Ms. James, I'm actually going to support what you're saying. The issue that's been read is that the committee be granted the power during its consideration of Bill C-425 to expand the scope of the bill, and that's why we went to the House. That's why there's a concurrence motion. There's going to be a time for you to debate that—not here but in the House.

Quite frankly, the issue before us is whether the House should give the committee an additional 30 days to deal with this bill.

I'm going to rule that Ms. James and others are correct; that the statement of expanding the scope of the bill, which you want to read O'Brien on, is not in order because its effect is what we're going to be dealing with in the House, not in this committee.

Have you finished, Ms. James?

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

—nowhere does it say in this motion that we are seeking to expand. It was actually a statement. It actually reads, “On Tuesday, April 23”, so it's in the past tense. We're not seeking to expand. It's in the past tense. It reads:On Tuesday, April 23, 2013, the Committee recommended to the House that it be granted the power during its consideration of Bill C-425 to expand the scope of the Bill.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The motion before us is requesting an extension of 30 days of further study of and debate on Bill C-425. I believe that this is not necessary at this time, given that we have given this bill its requisite 60 days, and it was the government.... This is what I was saying earlier. You specifically told me that I need to speak about this when I'm debating the main motion and not the amendment or the subamendment, so thank you for reminding me of that, Mr. Chair.

Clearly, the process in this committee is that the government members generally set the schedule because they have a majority, like they do in the House of Commons. They have a majority here, and they basically control the proceedings. If they wanted more debate on this bill, they had the ability to make sure the committee studied only this bill for the last 60 sitting days. But they chose, and they decided that it didn't need more than the number.... I don't remember the exact number of hours that we've put towards this bill. But they chose that it wasn't necessary. They set the schedule.

Now, all of a sudden, because the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration has said that he wants to make some changes and see some changes happen, what we're seeing is that the government members on this bill are saying, “Whoa, hold it, we want more study now, we want more time, we want to be able to debate this.” The exact quote from one of the members today is that they want “an opportunity to review it, to debate it” further. But they've had that time. They've had the opportunity. It's not necessary at this point to extend the study period another 30 days to move forward.

That's one reason, Mr. Chair. They've had the time; they've had the opportunity.

The second piece is the second half of the motion, where they're asking to expand the scope of this bill. Another reason to not continue to study—

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Yes.

I want to remind us all of what's before us:Pursuant to Standing Order 97.1(1), your Committee is requesting an extension of thirty sitting days to consider Bill C-425, An Act to amend the Citizenship Act (honouring the Canadian Armed Forces), referred to the Committee on Wednesday, February 27, 2013.

On Tuesday, April 23, 2013, the Committee recommended to the House that it be granted the power during its consideration of Bill C-425 to expand the scope of the Bill. The Committee is awaiting for a decision of the House before further considering the Bill. Therefore, your Committee requests an extension of thirty sitting days.

It's the very wording of that motion that brings me to speak about the government's request for an extension. It is not to address the content of what is already in Mr. Shory's bill. It is to go before the House to seek an expansion of scope, and that, I believe, will fundamentally change Mr. Shory's bill in a significant way.

When I read that motion out and then try to relate it to what we're here to debate, it is perfectly within my rights and privileges, I would argue, to discuss what is in the motion to explain why I am against the extension.

I believe that every member of Parliament, not the cabinet or parliamentary secretaries—excluding that group—has a right to bring forward private members' business, and a right to have it go through the systems we have in the timelines we have.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Chair, I'm just trying to reiterate in a different way what I heard, that we were trying to circumvent private members' business.

I will add that we're here today to debate the extension motion. It's very difficult to debate the extension motion—unless you want a yea or nay vote and no debate—without referencing what happened at committee, as long as we relate it back to the bill.

I'm not going to get into the content of the amendments, as you've said, because we're not here to discuss them. We're here only to take a look at an extension for Bill C-425. That's what I will focus on, an extension for Bill C-425.

I believe at this stage the extension is being sought to circumvent private members' business so that the government can carry out its own agenda.

Mr. Chair, I'm really trying to stick to the motion that is before us. The motion before us—

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

This will definitely give the proper respect to my honourable colleague, who is sitting at this committee now. As my colleagues have mentioned, I've sat beside this particular colleague, Mr. Devinder Shory, throughout every committee meeting on Bill C-425. He was there to welcome amendments and to provide his insight.

In fact, Mr. Chair, back at the end of January, when I found out that I was given the opportunity and was asked whether I wanted to speak to this particular bill in the House, I basically jumped up and down, because I think this bill is so important to Canadians and to Canada. I think it goes a long way.... The amendments that were put forward—and again, I'm not speaking directly to the amendments—are the reason we're asking for the extension of 30 days. I think 30 days is not unreasonable. If we were seeking 365 sitting days, perhaps that might be unreasonable, but so far, the amendments that we've put forward, and this particular motion addressing the need to allow those amendments to be heard, are not unreasonable.

We've been sitting here for a week. Again, in the nine and a half hour speech from the opposition, they covered absolutely everything possible that they could read from a book and from the other things that were handed to them, and I only have a few moments to speak directly to this specific motion and the need to have the extension.

I'm sitting here and speaking on behalf of my constituents and the over 80% of Canadians from coast to coast to coast, I have to say, who support Devinder Shory's bill and wholeheartedly embrace the amendments that not only did this committee put forward, but that the member himself agreed with and embraced wholeheartedly.

On that, Mr. Chair, I have to say that as I sit here and ponder what has happened in the last week, I can only look to the opposition to put a stop to this nonsense that's been going on with this filibuster, to speak for a couple of moments to this particular motion, and then to allow it to go to a vote.

There are Canadians who are watching this right now and are seeing what is going on. There is also the expense to Canadian taxpayers by sitting here around the clock debating. It's not proving a point. They would like to see the extension granted so that this can be properly debated and voted on in a very democratic manner, as I said, representing the constituents of my riding of Scarborough Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I wanted to let Ms. Sims know that when I was mentioning terrorism I was not making mention of it in reference to this bill specifically. I was trying to make the point that I'm here representing my constituents of Scarborough Centre. I want to point out that this particular bill, Bill C-425, has garnered more interest from my constituents than many of the other bills that we have done in this committee.

I actually highlighted it in my newsletter recently, and I received positive feedback on this particular bill. The resounding comments from my constituents were that they absolutely approved of this bill and they wanted it to go further. I have to let you know as well that almost a year ago our government cracked down on residency fraud—

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I really welcome the opportunity to have a moment or two to speak in favour of this extension, in favour of the motion.

We are not actually speaking about the bill itself. What we are asking for is an extension of 30 days to allow for the appropriate period of time for debate on Mr. Shory's Bill C-425. He has made it abundantly clear from the outset that he would welcome all amendments. We have before us a number of amendments that require an extension of 30 days so that they can be properly debated, reviewed, and ultimately voted on.

I don't want to be repetitive with what my colleagues have already said, but as you know, Mr. Chair, there are a limited number of opportunities for a member of Parliament to put forward a private member's bill. This is one which Mr. Shory felt very strongly about and for which he openly solicited recommendations as to how he could make it better. I believe allowing just 30 days is giving the proper time and respect to Mr. Shory's bill so that he has the opportunity to put forth a piece of legislation which over 82% or 83% of Canadians agree with.

I don't want to get off the topic of discussion at the moment as we are only discussing the motion of a 30-day extension. Without delving into the substance of the bill itself, I think it is incumbent upon us as members of the citizen and immigration committee, and I appeal to all members on all sides in this committee and in this House, to allow an additional 30 days so that we can properly review, discuss, and ultimately exercise our right to vote on this piece of legislation, including its amendments. I think it is only fair. Any suggestion to the contrary would certainly, in my opinion, be putting procedure over substance, as Mr. Weston so eloquently put it. There is a lot of substance here that needs to be discussed and reviewed for its merit. Thirty days will allow that opportunity to happen.

Mr. Chair, I will conclude simply by saying that I am in full support of this extension as it respects the honourable member's wishes, the sponsor of this bill's wishes to move forward with this very important piece of legislation.

Thank you.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

To the extension, Chairman, it's so straightforward:

Pursuant to Standing Order 97.1(1), your Committee is requesting an extension of thirty sitting days to consider Bill C-425, An Act to amend the Citizenship Act (honouring the Canadian Armed Forces) referred to the Committee on Wednesday, February 27, 2013. On Tuesday, April 23, 2013, the Committee recommended to the House that it be granted the power during its consideration of Bill C-425 to expand the scope of the Bill. The Committee is awaiting for a decision of the House before further considering the Bill. Therefore, your Committee requests an extension of thirty sitting days.

Within the context of this extension, we are not seeking amendments, nor are we seeking to change the bill. We are not seeking a confrontation with the opposition to be able to use whatever means or tools that are at their disposal in the Westminster model of Parliament to deliver or to stop a bill from moving forward.

I do find it ironic and interesting, and I had some of this frustration last week when I noticed the opposition using the tools of our Westminster model and our committee process to drive forward their agenda, or what they felt the process should have been. At the same time, I do think we have that same right as a government, not just because we are the government, but because we as individuals should respect—should respect—the private members' process for a member to move a piece of legislation forward.

At the end of the day, all of us, each and every one of us who sits in the House of Commons, will have the chance to support or to vote against Mr. Shory's bill. To take away the member's right by refusing to allow the extension motion to come to a vote is by far the worst way to attempt to stop his piece of legislation from moving forward. If members want to speak in the House against it, if they want to bring witnesses to committee who don't support it, if they want to ask the questions necessary to prove the points that they're going to make, I accept that. When we speak specifically to the issue before us today, which is the extension of the right, the extension really is the right of a member of Parliament to move his private member's bill forward, have it heard, have it brought through committee, have it go through three readings in the House, and then obviously have it move on to the Senate.

I would submit that since last Tuesday, at 8:45 a.m., we have had the ability to talk, the ability to present our issues. As those who sit on this side of the House, we've had our one opportunity to speak to this bill. I've had the opportunity to speak on behalf of my colleagues on the issue of the extension. I would submit that we have had enough discussion on the extension and we on the government side are ready to vote. We are ready to move it back to the House. Each of the opposition members has had the opportunity to speak to this. They have each had the opportunity to speak to the motion. I'm prepared, on behalf of my colleagues, to give up their speaking time if we are prepared to have a vote on this issue today. That will show that we are not here to delay, that we are not here to filibuster, that we are actually here to move this process forward.

Having said that, each and every member of the opposition has had that chance to have their say.

I would submit, and I would respectfully request, that we call the question on this and vote.

Citizenship and Immigration

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the NDP is now in day four of filibustering private member's Bill C-425 at the immigration committee. Those members are doing this because they believe that convicted terrorists should keep their Canadian citizenship. The NDP is ignoring the over 80% of Canadians who support it, including many in my own riding of Richmond Hill, who have contacted me with their support.

Could the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism please explain to the House why the government supports Bill C-425 and why the NDP opposes the vast majority of Canadians on this issue?

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Let me get back to the timing “on or no earlier than”. When you look at “no earlier than”, it gives back to the government a way to deal with the bill, Bill C-425—and it is relevant for me to talk about that in that context because I'm now talking about the timing. It gives the government a way to deal with that bill that actually changes the rules that exist in the House.

Currently, as you know, the original amendment said that the request is to take place in the House on June 21. The subamendment fundamentally changes that and basically opens it up and gives an extension that goes way beyond that.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'll be opposing the subamendment to the amendment and I'm going to take my time to explain why in detail.

Right now, as you know, the rules for private members' bills are that this particular bill, Bill C-425, would deem to be reported on June 21st, as is. What is now happening is that the government is seeking a 30-day extension to that. Then an amendment went on the floor to say that this request takes place before June 21st.

What we're dealing with right now is a subamendment to that.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I've mentioned how the change of the timeline from the amendment to the subamendment would make it more of a frivolous case, really, because we're just ensuring that Bill C-425 can be debated until perpetuity. To be honest, that's basically what's being proposed by the subamendment because it is to be tabled in the House not earlier than June 21.

I find it quite reckless when such an amendment is proposed to the amendment because what I tried to do with the amendment was to make it more timely and ensure that we were doing what we were supposed to be doing, and reporting back as quickly as possible. But the subamendment actually reverses that and makes it so that we are not reporting back as quickly as possible. It makes it so that we're reporting back at any later date. That's actually not responsible.