Bill S-5 (Historical)

Nááts’ihch’oh National Park Reserve Act

An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act (Nááts’ihch’oh National Park Reserve of Canada)

This enactment amends the Canada National Parks Act to establish Nááts’ihch’oh National Park Reserve of Canada.

Nááts’ihch’oh National Park Reserve Act

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

Obviously, the creation and expansion of national parks is what we want. However, the conservation and protection measures for the areas that need to be protected can only be effective if the necessary resources are allocated to them.

We on this side of the House, our colleague from Northwest Territories in particular, have really emphasized the fact that the major cuts to Parks Canada have affected the north.

What does my Liberal colleague think of the repercussions of these cuts? Also, what needs to be done to ensure that this bill achieves its goals of protection and conservation?

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that the Environment Canada and the sub-department of Parks Canada have been the orphan child of the Conservative government. Essentially, for the eight or nine years that the government has been in place, the budget has been flatlined and there have been substantial lapses. Some are in the order of 10% in lapsed money last year.

It is not as if Parks Canada cannot use the money. Its infrastructure needs are massive. Literally within walking distance of this place, the Rideau Canal needs something like $300 million in upgrades. A lot of little announcements are made, but little on cheque writing. I guess we save the cheque writing for another occasion

I agree with the hon. member that it would be nice to see the resources accompany the announcements, and it would have been nice to have simultaneously tabled a dedicated sum of money for the preservation, enhancement and access to Nááts’ihch’oh.

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I want to respond to the issue of mining. One of the challenges is that when there are mining sites, with approved investment and a lot of capital put in, and we want to create or expand a national park, taxpayers will be required to buy out the mining rights. The families in Ottawa West—Nepean, which might be seniors on fixed incomes or families with two kids, would have to reach into their pockets to buy out the mining rights.

The second thing that would happen is that all the people who work in the mine would lose their jobs. That is why it is so tremendously important, particularly in the far Arctic, to preserve the best and most important parts of our country, these natural wonders, before there is mining there, before there is any destruction and before there are any problems. That way we can avoid this problem in the future.

That is why it is so important to get bills like this passed, so there is no new mining in areas that we want to protect.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I tend to agree with the hon. member in principle, but it is ironic that the people of that area would have preferred to include the mine site in the actual South Nahanni watershed.

It appears that the government and the local folks, who would have been most affected by jobs and the costs of either opening or closing a facility, would have preferred to keep that part of the land inside the park rather than outside the park.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to come back to the question I asked before. The answer was that significant resources are needed for protection and conservation, which is what I expected to hear.

The hon. member talked about the money in the Parks Canada budget that was not spent, but there is also the fact that more than 64 positions have been eliminated so far in the north, where there are a dozen national parks. It is not just a question of the money that was not spent, it is also a question of the cuts that were made, which hinder the work not just of the officers in charge of conservation and protection, but also the work of the scientific staff in charge or maximizing and optimizing what we might learn from these parks.

I would like to hear what my Liberal colleague has to say about the importance of these positions and the scientific work that can be done in this national park.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleagues for filling in my time on speeches, because I thought I offered a Christmas gift of a shorter discourse.

Nevertheless, it is great to preserve these pieces of land. We are all supportive of that. However, it is passingly strange that we do not provide resources to improve and enhance them, or even give access to Canadians so they can actually see these national treasures.

On the issues of science, the government's record speaks for itself. Science has been the whipping child. We would not want to have facts get in the way of ideology. The scientists, regrettably, provide inconvenient facts from time to time, which just ruins a well-crafted political narrative.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure today to rise and speak in support of Bill S-5, An Act to amend the Canada National Parks Act (Nááts’ihch’oh National Park Reserve of Canada).

I have heard a lot of talk about Christmas today in the House, and maybe it is because everybody is anxious to get to their ridings, meet up with their constituents and attend a lot of the celebratory events held around Christmastime.

However, when I look at the bill and this new park, we have to first acknowledge the Sahtu Dene and Métis people, the area's aboriginal people, for the wonderful gift of this park. I want to thank them on behalf of all Canadians.

I want to also thank my Conservative colleagues for accepting this gift and bring forward legislation for the park.

In the lengthy hearings that were held, there was huge overall support for the park. A number of options were looked at. Option 1 would have encompassed an area of 6,450 square kilometres, and would have provided the best conservation value, while providing an open area around the existing mineral interests. Option 2 encompassed an area of 5,770 square kilometres, which would diminish the achievement of conservation goals and would allow more mineral potential to be available. Option 3, the smallest land proposal, encompassed an area of 4,840 square kilometres, and took advantage of the mineral potential within the proposed park reserve, while providing some protection to key values.

Hearings were held on all three options. What we have before us today is not the preferred option of all those who attended the hearings. Of those who participated in the hearings and indicated a preference, 92.3% preferred option 1. However, before us today is option 3. This park is a lot smaller than the option preferred by those who expressed an interest but, at the same time, baby steps are better than nothing, and this is a step in the right direction.

I am not saying anything new or controversial when I say that we live in one of the most beautiful countries on this planet. I have had the pleasure to travel from coast to coast to coast in my previous life and had the privilege of visiting some of our remotest regions. I have seen the majestic beauty and diversity of our geography. Therefore, I, like other Canadians, am very concerned that we offer some environmental protection for some of the pristine north and biologically-diverse areas. However, with the creation of a park, we would guarantee for Canadians some level of conservation and an area for them to visit.

It would not be in the Christmas spirit if I did not say that this is a positive step on the part of my colleagues across the way, because it is.

My next plea to my colleagues across the way is this. Now that they have put forward legislation that we New Democrats will be supporting—though they could have gotten it through the House without our support—the key thing for them to do now is to provide resources. We have a knack for passing legislation that sounds very grand and gives a sense of hope to people, but if we do not resource the legislation we pass, it remains words on paper. We have heard over the last number of years how many of our national parks are in dire straits and need funding to be maintained.

In December of 2013, which seems like a long time ago, the Toronto Star reported that there was an almost $3 billion backlog in deferred maintenance at Parks Canada. I want to repeat that number: $3 billion in backlogged maintenance. If we throw into that context a new park, which New Democrats are supporting, we worry that the creation of this new park could just be an empty gesture unless we are willing to maintain the parks and do what it takes to keep them going.

In its November 2013 departmental performance report, Parks Canada identified aging infrastructure, inadequate levels of funding, and maintenance as key risks for the department. The Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development identified a wide and persistent gap between what the government commits to and is achieving.

Creating a park is wonderful, and we should take credit for that, but at the same time, let us make sure that we also put resources into the budget to support not only this park but also other parks that are getting run down. I would say that they are more than a little run down, according to the report that was given to us by Parks Canada.

When New Democrats looked at the 2013-14 budget announcement of spending on infrastructure in parks, the picture became even bleaker. The budget announced $391 million over five years to deal with crumbling buildings, roads, and dams. This amount will not even cover the backlog. More importantly, the amount the government is actually going to spend in the short term is ridiculous. Guess how much it will spend on all our parks in 2014? It will spend just $1 million. While that is a huge sum of money, I know, for those who work for a living, the evidence shows that the government is $3 billion behind in just doing repair work. It has budgeted just $1 million for that work; then in 2015, next year, it will spend $4 million.

The New Democrats are not surprised at the broken promises from across the way. The Conservatives have broken promises on a huge number of issues, which I will get to later. The government then says that after the next election, it will spend $386 million. Why is that spending only required after the next election, when the need, as identified in November 2013, is well into the billions of dollars?

Because of that, it is very difficult for New Democrats to take the government at its word. Of course, the NDP supports the creation of national parks in Canada's north, as well as across Canada, from coast to coast to coast. I am very proud that my riding of Newton—North Delta has local parks. The region has some amazing parks as well, and citizens from coast to coast to coast really appreciate them.

In my younger days, I spent much time camping in our national parks, from the time my kids were little until quite recently. It was an absolute pleasure to go into those parks and enjoy our beautiful scenery and everything that our parks had to offer, like kayaking, swimming, and so on. I say “until quite recently” because, to be honest, since my election, I have not really had the time to go camping with my children or grandchildren. However, it is certainly something I do look forward to next summer.

Here is a park that the Conservatives have brought forward after seven years of consultation and negotiations with the aboriginal peoples of that region. The Conservatives can create all the parks they want. After all, they have a majority. However, without funding and careful protection of the ecological integrity of this park and all national parks, the designation is relatively meaningless in conservation terms.

When I have visited our Pacific Rim National Park in B.C. on the west coast of Vancouver Island, I saw first-hand some of the upgrading that was needed. I have had the absolute pleasure of enjoying that beautiful park since moving to B.C.

I want to keep touching on the fact that we need resources to support our parks. It is like owning a house. I am sure many of my colleagues across the way own their own homes. When we own a house, if we do not do the repairs, it starts to crumble around us. First it gets run down, and then before we know it, it is crumbling. It is the same when we create parks. If we do not maintain them and invest in their maintenance and infrastructure, our parks become compromised and also start crumbling.

I am sure that my friends across the aisle do not want that to happen either. I know they are going to bring forward a budget in January that will have significant dollars attached to it, so that we can go forward and make sure that our parks are protected.

I just cannot imagine anyone in Canada being opposed to the creation of national parks, except perhaps for some mining interests and others that want to go in and extract goods. We have to find a way to support our extractive industries while at the same time making sure that we look after our environment. We have to make sure that for our grandchildren and our great grandchildren have parks that are pristine and protected as a national heritage that they can visit.

Coming from England, I was so overwhelmed by the geography of Canada when I first came here. I had all kinds of stereotypes in my head when I came from England, which were soon destroyed. They should have been destroyed, because a lot of my stereotypes were based on what I saw on television. However, at the same time, I saw the diversity of our geography.

I first moved to Quebec. It is a beautiful province. We enjoyed our two years in Quebec and its geography and wilderness. We spent a lot of time outdoors—every time we could get away in fact—and explored it and the surrounding areas.

However, whether we are in Newfoundland, the Yukon, B.C., or Saskatchewan, Canadians are very concerned about their environment and Canada.

Here I will digress just for a nanosecond to say that I am also hearing from Canadians that they are very embarrassed at the actions our government has taken recently when it comes to the protection of our environment and the role it has played internationally. Quite honestly, I was so taken aback when I heard the Prime Minister say that it would be crazy to regulate the oil and gas industry, because I remember hearing many times from ministers and the Prime Minister how those regulations were coming. Then suddenly, it is all an act of craziness.

We are very concerned about the environment and, as a result, we New Democrats do want to say that this is a little step in the right direction on the part of the Conservatives. After all, creating a park is a good Christmassy thing to do. However, at the same time, I have to plead with my colleagues across the way that they look at some of the deregulation they have done, some of the environmental protections they have taken away, and that they reinstate many of those to protect our waterways, our pristine coastlines, and our lakes.

I would say that in my beautiful province of British Columbia, we are very dependent on the tourism industry, so we just cannot imagine the kind of damage that would happen if there were an oil spill along the B.C. coastline. We have seen how many years it takes to do the cleanup and how many billions of dollars it takes. Because of the pristine nature of our lakes and rivers, we are also concerned about these because we do not want them to become the victims of oil spills as well.

We want to ensure that the government members across the way, in the spirit of Christmas and as they look to other good things they want to do, really look at their government's degradation of environmental protection. My plea to them is that they not do it for themselves, but for their children, their grandchildren, and their great-grandchildren. If they do not have children or grandchildren of their own, they should do it for the sake of all the children who will follow us and live on this planet long after many of us have gone.

When talking about our environment, it is not a joke. I want to say that whether I visit an elementary school or high school, I am so delighted to get the privilege of visiting schools in my riding where the students decide the agenda. They decide what they want to ask me about. I do not walk in and say what we are going to talk about that day. I am invited in and the students ask me questions. The top two questions in every classroom I go to are related to the environment, to climate change. Our young people get it. Whether I am visiting Princess Margaret Secondary School in my riding or Tamanawis Secondary School or NDSS, the students are fully engaged.

Here we are, the day before the House recesses for Christmas, and I take this opportunity to wish my colleagues across the aisle and on this side, and Canadians from coast to coast to coast, a merry Christmas to all who celebrate Christmas, and to people who do not celebrate Christmas, happy holidays. I wish that they enjoy this time with their family. This is the time when all of us get together and sit around the fire and tell old stories. I am really looking forward to spending the Christmas break with my beautiful grandchildren and the rest of my family.

Merry Christmas to you as well, Mr. Speaker, and happy holidays.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to share in the good wishes and wish everyone in the House a merry Christmas.

I want to point out that the member inadvertently misled the House by misquoting the comments of the Prime Minister on the oil and gas industry. It is important to note that there was one word missing in her comment, which totally changed the meaning of what she was misquoting. The Prime Minister said that he would not regulate the oil and gas industry now “unilaterally”, meaning without action by other nations. He was primarily referring to the United States. That is a meaning quite different from what she said, and I think it is important to correct that. We have heard it in the House over the last couple of days as well.

As well, it was evident from the member's remarks that she had missed a very important recent announcement by the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister just announced $2.8 billion for Parks Canada infrastructure, which is exactly what she was talking about. Would the member not agree that this is significant and, if so, does that increase the chances that the member will support our upcoming budget?

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I always look forward to debating the budget. If there are good things in the budget, I want to support them. However, my colleagues across the way have buried the budget in an omnibus bill that contains all kinds of things that I cannot in good conscience support. They make it very difficult for me to vote, because I do not get the opportunity to vote for one part and not the other.

In 2006 the Prime Minister said in the House that there would be regulations for the gas and oil industry. We are now in December 2014. After having a majority since 2011, the government has run legislation through this House with respect to environmental degradation, atrocious immigration policies, and cuts to Veterans Affairs. I could go on, but at no time has it brought forward those regulations. That record speaks for itself.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Mr. Speaker, further to the previous question, which I am sure my colleague would want to speak to, the government keeps saying it is investing these dollars, but the fact is that budget cuts have had a huge impact and have led to a 33% staffing cut in science within Parks Canada. Out of 179 positions, 60 were eliminated.

The government even allowed funding to lapse in the 2012-13 period. I am wondering what impact these lapses in funding have. The government is good at saying it has invested this money, but it does not spend it. I think my colleague can appreciate my question.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will say this at the outset. What I have seen since I have been in the House is a majority government that has an allergy to science and to evidence-based decision-making. It has a hard time listening to experts. The government also has a habit of making announcements with respect to what it plans to do and of then leaving billions of dollars in budgets unspent, as in the veterans department. It can make all the announcements it likes to get the photo ops, but if it does not follow through and spend the money, it is making fake promises.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to acknowledge the good wishes for a merry Christmas. I thank you for that. I certainly extend them back to you, as well as to my colleagues in the House.

However, there is one area of miscommunication, and it is with respect to environmental protection.

The member talked about making promises and not keeping them. Under the previous government there was a promise to cut our greenhouse gas emissions; during that period of time, those greenhouse gas emissions rose by over 30%. During the time that this government has been in power, it has reduced greenhouse gas emissions by over 5%, and this at a time when the economy grew by over 10%.

It is one thing to make promises and have photo ops, but this government has followed through with action. We have seen action on reducing pollutants in our air and water and on reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Therefore, in the spirit of Christmas, I would ask my colleague to at least acknowledge the great work this government has done on increasing the level of protection for our environment, not just by having photo ops but by taking action that has improved our environment on every score.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canada has always had a wonderful reputation internationally, but recent comments made from the United Nations about our lack of action and our lack of commitment embarrass me as a Canadian. We need our government to be at the table with the international community to address climate change in a serious way.

The UN Secretary-General said recently that there is no plan B for addressing climate change because there is no planet B. This is a very serious issue. It is not about photo ops. All I have seen since I have been in this House is environmental protections being degraded to the point where it is almost a joke. When I look at the number of rivers and lakes that are no longer protected, at the kinds of systems put in place to approve projects that could damage our environment, at the kinds of liabilities Canadians are going to have to face for cleanup, I do not believe we are going in the right direction.

As a Christmas gift to the planet, I would urge my colleagues to revisit their policies on environmental protection and do the right thing.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to listen to the speeches by my colleague from Newton—North Delta. She shares her experiences in the House and that is greatly appreciated.

I am not an expert and I did not sit on the committee that studied this bill, but I am very interested in everything to do with protected areas in Canada. I know that my colleague is from British Columbia, where they hope that consultations will be held on the possibility of transporting oil through some very sensitive areas on the west coast.

What does she think of the government's approach to protecting significant wildlife areas in Canada? What does she think of the Conservatives' approach to the environment and sustainable development?

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the first question she asked me was about committee work. I used to teach social studies. Part of social studies 11 was teaching about the Canadian government. Before that, I taught history and how decisions are made in the House of Commons and the processes our bills go through, and before I came into this House, I always felt a reassurance that the committee stage would work in such a way that all points of view would be heard and we would hear from a myriad of experts who knew a great deal about the topic. The opposition's job would be to put forward amendments to improve the bill so that we ended up with the best legislation ever. Then the bill would come back to this House.

However, my experience has been that the committee stage has been hijacked by the majority to put forward their agenda. Government members do not pay attention and many times do not even want to hear witnesses. Then they cut short the committee's time just so they can get their agenda through.