Bill C-2 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Income Tax Act

This enactment amends the Income Tax Act to reduce the second personal income tax rate from 22% to 20.‍5% and to introduce a new personal marginal tax rate of 33% for taxable income in excess of $200,000. It also amends other provisions of that Act to reflect the new 33% rate. In addition, it amends that Act to reduce the annual contribution limit for tax-free savings accounts from $10,000 to its previous level with indexation ($5,500 for 2016) starting January 1, 2016.

Income Tax Act

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would point the member to the various firms in Canada that carry out surveys of working Canadians, including the Working Canadians organization and the financial institutions that handle the establishment of tax-free savings accounts. Those numbers are solid.

In quoting low participation rates, the Liberals looked back to the 2013 investment year. However, if we speak to any of the major financial institutions in this country, we will find that participation rates rose sharply last year, and even more sharply when it became clear that the Liberals were hell bent on fulfilling their campaign promises to slash the $10,000 annual investment limit.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the late Saskatchewan premier Allan Blakeney defined social democracy as a “fair share for all in a free society”, and the NDP certainly believes in a free society.

In the last Parliament, we were the only party to stand up and vote against Bill C-51, the Conservative surveillance law. In the current Parliament, we were the only party to stand up and oppose the Conservative motion calling on the state to condemn controversial speech about Israel.

However, as important as civil liberties are, and as good as the NDP's record is in this area, civil liberties are not what define us fundamentally as social democrats. “Liberal” is also a derivative of “liberty”. Even in the Conservative Party, there is a libertarian strain, even if it was pretty difficult to detect under the last Conservative government. What really defines us as social democrats is our concern for what former premier Blakeney described as a fair share: a more equitable distribution of income and wealth.

We believe in equality, not just for its own sake, but also because all the evidence indicates that a more equitable distribution of income and wealth leads to more happiness, better health, and less crime. Therefore, the trend toward worsening inequality is quite troubling.

In recent years and decades, a vastly disproportionate share of income gains have been concentrated in too few hands at the very top of the scale. The tax system is one of the most powerful tools available to government to address those inequalities. Therefore, I believe the House should evaluate Bill C-2 in terms of its effect on income inequality.

At this point, I will shift from quoting Allan Blakeney to invoking Clint Eastwood, because Bill C-2 has the consistency of a spaghetti western. Allow me to review the good, the bad, and yes, the ugly aspects of the legislation before us.

The good thing about Bill C-2 is that it includes tangible measures to collect a fairer share of tax from the rich. Specifically, it would increase by 4% the top income tax rate on incomes over $200,000.

This is entirely consistent with what the NDP has achieved at the provincial level. In Nova Scotia, the NDP government increased by 4% the top rate on incomes over $150,000. In a minority legislature in Ontario, the NDP amended a budget to add two points of income tax on incomes over half a million dollars. The most excellent NDP government in Alberta has quite correctly gone from a flat tax to a progressive income tax system. As part of our election platform in Saskatchewan, the NDP is proposing an additional percentage point of tax on incomes over $175,000.

The other positive aspect of this legislation is to restore the TFSA contribution limit to $5,500 per year. I think it is important to note that the previous Conservative government's proposal to increase that limit to $10,000 would only affect people who have extra money left over after the 18% of income that can be contributed to RRSPs and after the $5,500 that can still be contributed to TFSAs.

In 2013, fewer than 7% of eligible Canadians made the maximum TFSA contribution. It stands to reason that probably only up to that 7% of Canadians would stand to gain anything from a higher limit on TFSA contributions. Therefore, restoring that limit to $5,500 is clearly a progressive move. That is the good.

Now I am moving on to the bad.

Bill C-2 would include a so-called middle-class tax cut that would not actually help the middle class. I think the Liberals might be a bit confused between cutting the middle tax bracket and changing taxes in such a way as to help people with middle incomes, because what the bill proposes is a tax cut that only applies to incomes above $45,000, and that is more than the median Canadian income. To receive the maximum benefit, someone would need to have an income of more than $90,000 per year.

To put that into perspective, someone working as a nanny for the Prime Minister would receive nothing from the middle-class tax cut. However, the Prime Minister himself, and indeed all members of this House, would get the maximum benefit of about $700—but we do not need the money.

What are the alternatives?

We in the NDP had proposed to reduce the first tax bracket, which applies to everyone. We also proposed to boost the working income tax benefit, which is more targeted toward lower incomes.

In our election platform in Saskatchewan, the provincial NDP is proposing to boost the basic personal exemption, which again applies to everyone.

It would be extremely easy to design and implement a middle-class tax cut that would actually go to the middle class. However, in all the discussion we have heard about the bill, I have not heard a coherent explanation from the Liberals as to why they are pushing ahead with a tax cut that would only go to incomes above $45,000, rather than enacting a tax cut that would include all Canadian taxpayers.

I notice that many people on this side of the House are speaking today because the Liberals have given up their speaking slots in this debate. I would suggest that is because they do not actually have a very good answer to this question.

That is the bad.

Now, I am moving on to the ugly.

The bill would not even add up. I would argue that the Liberal tax proposal during the election was palatable to many progressive Canadians because it was promised to pay for itself. Even though the Liberal proposal was not very well targeted, it at least seemed that a redistribution from the very rich to the upper middle class might be a move in the direction of equality.

It has since been revealed that the bill would not pay for itself, that it would cost more than $1 billion a year in lost federal revenue. In effect, what the government is proposing is to borrow money to fund a tax break for people who do not really need it.

How could we make up the lost revenue?

Since 2000, Liberal and Conservative governments have slashed the federal corporate tax rate in half. We have not seen the promised boost in investment. On the contrary, we see private non-financial corporations sitting on a record hoard of cash.

The parliamentary budget officer estimates that each point of corporate income tax that we might restore would collect $2 billion of revenue.

One might argue that, with low commodity prices and depressed corporate profits, the corporate tax would not actually bring in that much. However, that is the beauty of corporate taxes: they function as an automatic stabilizer. When the economy is depressed and profits are low, they do not take very much money out of it, but as the economy starts to recover and we want to move toward a balanced budget, corporate taxes will automatically collect more revenue.

I would urge the government to very seriously consider at least partially reversing corporate tax cuts as a way of starting to collect the additional revenue that will be wanted as our economy begins to recover.

In conclusion, there are enough positive elements in Bill C-2 that the NDP is prepared to support it on second reading. However, there is a huge amount of room for improvement in targeting the so-called middle-class tax cut to those who really need it and in collecting the revenue that will ultimately be needed if the government is ever going to balance the budget.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan on a very entertaining speech. It is rare that we hear Clint Eastwood quoted in this chamber. I do not think he is quoted enough, so let me quote him from Heartbreak Ridge. Clint Eastwood said to improvise, adapt, and overcome.

I enjoyed how the hon. member improvised and adapted. During the election campaign, the NDP did not favour a tax increase for those earning over $200,000. During the election campaign, the NDP did not favour a tax decrease for those earning less than $45,000. However, suddenly the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan is adapting, improvising, and trying to overcome by criticizing all the things we are now doing and saying that the NDP believes this and this and this; but the New Democrats said completely the opposite in the election campaign.

I would like to ask this for the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan. How can he possibly improvise, adapt, and overcome in this way when he is now contradicting what his party said in the election campaign?

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I will refrain from quoting Clint Eastwood as to whether the member opposite is feeling lucky, but I will make the point that there are many ways of making the tax system more progressive.

In the election campaign, the NDP proposed a reversal of corporate tax cuts as a way of collecting more revenue and funding important public services and infrastructure. The Liberal Party chose not to make that proposal. The Liberals proposed a modest increase in the top personal tax rate. That is quite consistent with what the NDP has achieved at the provincial level, and we are happy to support it in this House as well.

The real question is whether the Liberal government will actually start reversing corporate tax cuts in order to collect a fairer share of revenue and start to move back toward a balanced budget.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague brought the scope of provincial NDP governments into his speech, so let us talk about that.

In Manitoba, there was legislation that required a referendum prior to a PST increase. The NDP government, even though it campaigned against a PST increase, increased the PST. It had to go and try to gut the legislation requiring the referendum, but still increased the PST before that law was changed, even though a survey by Angus Reid at the time said that 74% of Manitobans wanted a referendum and 72% disagreed with raising the PST. Why was that? It was because common-sense Canadians know that raises to general consumption taxes are a bad thing.

I am asking the following for my colleague. Given the absolutely disastrous reign of the Manitoba NDP in my home province of Manitoba—it has been in power since I was 19 years old—including the loss of jobs, the instability in social programming, and the absolute disaster that the government has been, how can my colleague bring provincial politics into his speech and think that the NDP has absolutely any credibility whatsoever to speak to taxation issues?

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I will just clarify for the member for Calgary Nose Hill that I am from Saskatchewan, not Manitoba, and I will not pretend to be intimately familiar with all the details of Manitoba provincial politics. What I will say philosophically is that I do not believe in legislation that requires governments to go through referenda before making tax changes. I believe in the sovereignty of Parliament, and I think that governments need to make important fiscal decisions all the time.

However, what I am really excited about, in terms of the NDP at the provincial level, is the most excellent government we have in Alberta. It has really moved that province out of the dark ages of having this regressive flat tax and has in fact brought Alberta into the light of having a progressive income tax, where people who have the good fortune to earn higher incomes pay a higher rate of tax on those incomes. I believe that progressive taxation is really a hallmark of civilized society, and it is a great thing that Alberta, under the NDP, has joined the rest of the country in that regard.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I begin my speech today by referring to page 9 of the Liberal Party of Canada election platform and will quote directly from that document: “The two tax changes will be revenue neutral to the federal government.” It does not say that these tax changes might be revenue-neutral to the federal government or that they hope these tax changes will be revenue-neutral to the federal government. The Liberals were very clear that these tax changes will be revenue-neutral to the federal government.

Of course, on page 6 of the same document, Liberals told us that this was all part of a “fully costed” platform. In fact, throughout the election, we heard how Liberal experts had fully costed the platform. However, we now know that the so-called Liberal experts got it wrong. In fact, they got it very wrong.

The public budget office has shown us the real cost of these Liberal tax changes. These are not revenue-neutral at all. The real cost is $8.9 billion by the 2020-21 fiscal year. In other words, every single Liberal member of this House was elected under questionable pretenses.

Where are those Liberal experts today? I have yet to hear the Prime Minister apologize on behalf of these experts, or hold them accountable for misleading Canadians. The Liberals, as we know, say these tax changes will help the middle class. In fact, if we search Hansard, as well as online search engines, we would see hundreds of references by the Prime Minister about the middle class.

Yet, here is an interesting observation. On dozens of occasions in this place and in the media, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have been repeatedly asked how they define the middle class. To my amazement, I have yet to find an answer. They consistently refuse to provide a definition.

Let us look at these tax changes for an idea on who the Liberals think are the middle class. Are they citizens who are earning $45,000 a year? According to the Liberals, these are not middle-class Canadians because there is no income tax cut for them in these changes.

In essence, the Liberal tax changes apply to the tax bracket for incomes just over $45,000, and up to $90,563. However, wait, there is more. For those who earn over $90,000, they will also pay less tax on this portion of their income. For those earning up to $199,000—and I will come back to why I reference $199,000 in a moment—they will benefit from this tax cut. In other words, someone earning $199,000 per year benefits from these Liberals income tax changes, while someone earning $45,000 a year does not.

I challenge any member of this House to ask your constituents who they think is part of the middle class. Is it someone earning $45,0000 a year who does not benefit from these Liberal tax changes, or someone earning $199,000 per year who does? It is no wonder that our Prime Minister and Minister of Finance refuse to define the middle class. Only the Liberals would think that someone earning $199,000 is middle class and someone earning $45,000 is not.

The other interesting part is that the Liberals, in spite of the shoddy revenue-neutral math, tell us that these tax changes are there to help stimulate the economy. However, part of these tax changes are that the Prime Minister has created his own new top income tax rate. Those earning $200,000 or more will be penalized with a new 33% tax rate. In other words, we have a tax cut intended to help stimulate the economy, yet those who are most financially able to stimulate the economy are being penalized not to do so.

I have no doubt that the same Liberal experts who bungled the math on these tax changes being revenue-neutral likely came up with this misguided policy as well. With this Liberal tax hike, combined with provincial income taxes, some provinces will now be paying a combined rate of taxation that exceeds 50%.

I know that the Liberals think, who cares, that these people are wealthy. However, in talking to regions desperately trying to recruit much-needed new doctors, particularly rural areas in my riding, when doctors hear about a total tax rate of over 50%, they say, “Thanks, but no thanks.”

What is also interesting is that Bill C-2 proposes to roll back the maximum TFSA contribution implemented by the former government. I went through Hansard and read the Prime Minister's comments to try to determine why he hates the idea of Canadians saving money.

I found an interesting reference from the Prime Minister. He believes that having a tax-free savings account will only benefit the rich and will be paid for by the next generation of Canadians. I find this fascinating. Here we have a Prime Minister who is saddling the next generation of Canadians with billions of dollars in new debt, and he is worried about people having too much money in a savings account. Only in Liberal land does this make sense.

Let us not forget that all tax-free savings account contributions are made with net after-tax dollars. In other words, they are from the net income after tax has been paid. Let us also not forget that although people's investment income may not be taxable within a tax-free savings account, which is the entire point of having one, eventually that money will be withdrawn. In fact, people already withdraw from the TFSA for vehicle purchases, home renovations, and other big-ticket items that are common reasons for withdrawal.

Let us not overlook that when people spend that money here in Canada, not only do they support our local economies, but the money is also taxed, by GST, HST in some places, provincial sales tax. It is bizarre when the Liberals say that they are cutting taxes for some Canadians to help stimulate the economy, yet they discourage the idea of saving money.

Yesterday, I read an interesting column in a report by Vancity Credit Union. It talked about the expectations of millennials to inherit funds from the bank of mom and dad. The problem is that in many cases the expectations exceed what the bank of mom and dad is planning on delivering. That is why I submit that cutting back the tax-free savings account and sending the message that saving after-tax dollars is a bad idea is so misguided.

That is why I am here today opposing Bill C-2. So-called Liberal experts have the map badly wrong and have misled Canadians in the process. These same so-called experts further came up with policies that will only further set Canada behind, while adding billions in increased debt. It is not increased debt because we are in a recession, but rather debt because we are in a period of slow growth. That does not make sense.

The Liberals often like to say that a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian. However, if someone is a Canadian making $45,000 a year, there is no tax cut. If a Canadian is making $199,000 a year, they are apparently the middle class and do get a tax cut. If someone is a Canadian making $200,000 a year or more, they are further financially penalized. However, I suppose the fact that all future Canadians, regardless of income, will be left paying billions of dollars in new debt from these Liberal tax changes is the great equalizer.

I oppose these changes, because I believe that as Canadians we deserve better.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I find it truly amazing that the member would express concern in regard to deficits. All he needs to do is reflect on the 10 years of Conservative rule where there is over $150 billion. The only governments in the past that have truly had balanced budgets and surpluses have been the Paul Martin and Jean Chrétien governments.

The member makes reference to the tax breaks and the middle class. If I were a Conservative, I too would have a tough time to vote against this legislation. As much as he tries to cherry-pick in terms of who is benefiting, the individuals he does not choose are the hundreds of thousands of individuals who work in factories, teachers, many different professionals, who are going to have more money in their pockets as a direct result of this legislation.

I would suggest that the member reflect in terms of why he believes that the bulk of middle-class Canadians, many of whom are in his constituency, do not deserve a tax break. That is what he is voting on. Does he believe that his constituents should be getting the tax break?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is Liberal land at its finest. The fact is, the Liberals' own experts panned that this would be a revenue-neutral tax cut. It is clearly not. At $8.9 billion a year by 2020-21, it is not a healthy thing for Canada.

He talked about the deficits that prime ministers Chrétien and Martin dealt with. They dealt with them by cutting transfers to people, to provinces, and particularly downloading to municipalities and provincial health care programs. That is not a Canada that I want to see.

When we added to our deficits, it was because we had the financial crisis of 2007-08, which then precipitated the great recession, the lowest output in North America since the Great Depression. There was a rationale then; there is no rationale now. The member should be a little more clear and coherent about what he is panning.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is surprising to see so much misinformation coming out of the government. This $150-billion figure that they keep quoting is not accurate. In fact, the numbers are much lower in terms of debt that was added over the last 10 years. Projections are that the government will add more debt in the next four years than happened over the last 10 years, and that was coming through a financial crisis. We do not have a financial crisis right now, at all.

I was concerned as well to see very high levels of a combined debt-to-GDP ratio for Canada, if we include provincial and municipal numbers as well. Now is not the time to be increasing our debt-to-GDP ratio, as the government plan would be.

Could the member comment on that and also correct some of the ridiculous misinformation we are getting from the government?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we always have to take into account the context of the situation today. With our aging demographic, we are going to see less capacity to pay for things as we go forward. Is there a place for senior levels of government to invest in quality of life and productive infrastructure to make our economy better over the long term? Absolutely. However, we should be asking ourselves at what point it is within our means.

The government blew through the modest deficit promise of $10 billion a year. Now, we are talking about a starting point of $18.4 billion. It has blown past any suggestion that it would anchor itself to the GDP-to-net debt. That promise is blown away. What happens if we hit another financial crisis? What happens if there is another recession and we are behind the eight ball when it comes to dealing with our demographics and our aging society?

There is an argument to be made for investments. However, to be totally throwing out the financial road map that both previous Liberal and Conservative governments held, that balanced budgets make us stronger as a country, I believe is the wrong path.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is my very great pleasure to rise today and speak on behalf of residents of Milton with respect to Bill C-2.

If we recall the last campaign, the new Liberal tax plan was a central part of the government's campaign. It would become a vital plank of the Liberals' platform, one that they would go on to say was a major part of the plan that they credit their election win on. In fact, it was a vital plank of their platform that was signed off on by the now-Minister of Finance.

What was really important to my constituents in that campaign platform was that the plan be revenue-neutral, as they had promised. However, soon after coming into power, the Minister of Finance admitted that there was a miscalculation. He is basically admitting that the Liberals had been elected under false pretenses.

We also have it confirmed now by the Parliamentary Budget Officer that this tax plan will end up costing Canadians $8.9 billion over the next four years. This is one of the first concrete initiatives that was brought in by the new Liberal government, and it was grossly miscalculated. This leads us to where we find ourselves today, very much concerned about what is next. What future is our government headed toward in terms of other possible miscalculations?

The Liberals have justified destroying the former Conservative surplus and repealing the budget balance bill on the grounds that their spending is going to stimulate the economy. They are assuring Canadians, “Do not worry; relying on borrowed money is going to be okay. What really matters is the relationship between debt and GDP.”

What the Liberals are not telling Canadians is that these values of debt and GDP are not within the government's control. The government controls only spending, and quite frankly, it should be exercising prudence on this front. Targeted spending that will truly stimulate the economy is a good thing, and it is very different from these feel-good handouts that we are seeing more and more from the Liberal government.

What is this for? What is this deficit for, in terms of this tax plan? In reality, for a single person, Finance Canada tells us that it amounts to $6.34 a week. That is the price of a latte once a week, or maybe a salad once a week. The plan also relies on a feeling of consumer confidence, but when I talk to constituents in my riding, they have suggested that they are starting to feel a pinch.

A few weeks ago the Premier of Ontario announced a 4.5¢ tax on a litre of gas. That is about $900 a year for Canadian families to fill up at the pump. That is the cost associated with moving kids around to hockey, to soccer, to school. Under the federal Liberals' new tax plan, middle-class families are just going to receive $300 per year, and with this provincial tax, money granted under this bill will be completely swallowed up. Now, rather than feeling confident in spending, many plan on saving. After all, putting money in one pocket just to take it out of the other is certainly not what was promised in the election campaign.

The other aspect of this legislation that is truly concerning is that it seeks to make it more difficult for Canadians to save in general. It actually slashes the contribution limits for the tax-free savings account to $5,500 from the $10,000 that a previous Conservative government had set it at.

Many of the constituents in Milton have told me that they rely upon these savings accounts when planning for their future. In fact, there are two ways in which families in Milton are saving for their retirement and their future. One is by investing in their home. When they have their home equity built up, they utilize that in future years. They know they are saving toward a great goal.

The second way, of course, was through these TFSAs. The beautiful part about the TFSA is that individuals did not have to sell their homes in order to access the growth in these accounts. To someone saving for a higher education, a single couple saving to start a family, entrepreneurs saving for their businesses, parents saving for next year's hockey costs, or a low-income senior saving for retirement, the TFSA was a key tool to help them save. The Liberal tax plan will make life less affordable for Canadians and seniors who are ultimately trying to save for vulnerable years.

A recent report from the Parliamentary Budget Officer demonstrates that Canadians are taking on uncontrollable levels of debt. Canada has the highest debt in the G7, 171%, but at the same time we are taking away ways for Canadians to save their own money, and that is going to increase their exposure to becoming delinquent. The government should be encouraging responsibility in saving, regardless of how it chooses to run the nation's finances.

At a cost of $8.9 billion over four years, the new Liberal tax plan will do virtually nothing for Ontarians. The point is that the amount of money granted under the Liberal tax plan is so small that it is not worth the cost. With low oil prices, with thousands of lost jobs across the country, Canadians cannot afford to be plunged into a greater economic uncertainty with more deficit spending, which, by the way, is borrowing. When individuals buy cars, they do not say they are going to deficit finance that car. They say they are going to borrow money for that car.

If net benefits are nebulous, as they are in this Liberal tax plan, then it is problematic. If the government cannot manage its own books, who will? At the end of the day, all Canadians will end up paying in the form of tax increases.

The Conservative government had a legacy of tax fairness and a legacy of cutting taxes. When in office, the Conservative government cut taxes over 140 times. It left government with a surplus on the books, according to Finance Canada. That surplus became a deficit pretty soon after the Liberals took power. The Liberal path of deficit spending is disconcerting. The lack of oversight demonstrated in Bill C-2 speaks to this, and for Canadians, this should be a red flag.

Three promises were made in the Liberal campaign platform. The first was that the budget would be balanced by the end of the Liberal mandate, the second was that any deficit would be moderate, and the third was that any tax plan would be revenue-neutral.

Canadians took the Liberals at their word, but over 120 days, every single one of these fundamental promises has been broken and fundamentally breached. Those promises, I would submit, were absolutely made in consideration for the vote of the Canadian taxpayer. As a result, we sit in a situation now where we do not know how much the deficit will be, but we expect it will be significant.

The Liberals are not going to balance the budget at the end of their mandate. We know with great certainty that this is not a revenue-neutral tax plan, because it has been shown not to be upon admission and by Finance Canada.

As I said, for Canadians these are not only broken promises but very costly broken promises. Canadians cannot afford these changes, and when they come at the cost of growing structural long-term deficits, they should be opposed.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Mr. Speaker, according to the Conservatives, it is a dream to have Canadians save. They want everybody to be able to save. However, try telling that to people in low-income areas in priority neighbourhoods. Try telling that to families that are living day to day. Try telling that to people on the street. Our homeless rates are rising. Our poverty levels are rising. Try telling that to them.

The Conservatives also talk about the Liberal shell game. A previous speech by a member of the party opposite talked about Premier Wynne and how she was using a government slush fund to pay down debt. That came from a party that took $20 billion in EI reforms in 2010 and another $3 billion in EI reforms from 2010 to 2015 to pay down debt, so let us not talk half-truths.

Would the member opposite not agree that only 6.7% of Canadians maximized or registered for a tax-free savings account, which does not mean it was used? Would the member not agree that doubling something like that was actually for the few and not for the many? Would the member not agree that good governments make policy for the many, policy such as the Canada child benefit or a tax break for the middle class?

That is what good government should be.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member and I both come from the same region of Canada. I, of course, am from Cape Breton. We cannot all be blessed: he is from Saint John, New Brunswick. However, during his earlier speech something caught my attention, some words that I do believe separate us in this House, one on this side and one on that side.

When he was talking about TFSAs, he said that having them in place would affect government revenues. I take a very different point of view. These are taxpayer dollars that people have worked for. This is what they have achieved and aspired to do. Notionally, to think of utilizing what is in people's TFSAs on a year-by-year basis is the wrong way of looking at it.

I did not make a lot of money when growing up on Cape Breton Island. I remember doing my grandmother's taxes. She made $18,000 in 1989 and she brought us both up on that. The reality is I had dreams. I wanted to do better, and the TFSA goes with me through life. When I get to a higher salary, it allows me to shelter the money that I have worked extremely hard for so that I not only have a house I can rely upon if things go bad but I also have this tax-free savings account that is there for me to allow me to choose what to do, when I want to do it, and how I want to do it.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to add to the comments made by my colleague with respect to the Liberal plan not being revenue-neutral and in particular to the proposed carbon taxes the government wants to bring in.

I will quote Greg Sorbara, a former Ontario Liberal minister of finance and someone who would know a bit about this. In talking about what was done in Ontario, he stated, “Although the minister said there are no tax increases, the fact is that there's a $1.9-billion increase, which I call a flow-through tax, that will ultimately affect consumers. Cap and trade is a system where the government sells to industry an imaginary product called carbon credits, and those industries pass the costs—$1.9 billion, in this case—through the system, and it gives rise to higher prices at the gas pump, for gas that heats homes, and ultimately for every single product that we buy. The issue that I have with it.... I mean, it's an interesting way to raise money and say at the same time that you're not raising taxes. The issue that I have, and I'm not sure, because there's no evidence anywhere in the world that the cap and trade system actually does work to significantly reduce carbon emissions....”

My question to my colleague is this. The Liberals are addicted to all of these new taxes, and we have talked about the pension tax increases. However, what would this cap and trade plan do to the competitiveness of Canada when we are competing aggressively for new investment, especially in places like Oshawa, where I come from? What would these new taxes that are not revenue-neutral do to our competitiveness internationally?