Bill C-315 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Parks Canada Agency Act (Conservation of National Historic Sites Account)

This enactment establishes the Conservation of National Historic Sites Account and sets out the rules in respect of donations made for the conservation of national historic sites.

Parks Canada Agency Act

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Anthony Rota]

The time provided for the consideration of private members' business has now expired, and the order is dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the Order Paper.

It being 2:30 p.m., the House stands adjourned until Monday, October 16 at 11 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 28(2) and 24(1).

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

(The House adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)

The House resumed from October 6 consideration of the motion that Bill C-315, An Act to amend the Parks Canada Agency Act (Conservation of National Historic Sites Account), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to stand in the House to speak to the bill and in the spirit of the day, I will mention I do not quite have 95 theses to contribute to this debate and I am not going to nail my speech at the end of it to the chamber doors, but I do have a Yiddish proverb I want to share. The member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes would appreciate it. “Without money, there is no world”.

We understand that it takes money if we want to preserve things and purchase things, just like our buildings are a national treasure. Our national historic sites need money in order to continue to attract visitors, students, and teachers so they can learn about our national historic sites and better appreciate these great assets that Canada has as part of our cultural and national heritage.

I am very pleased to support Bill C-315 and I want to thank the member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes for tabling it once again for debate.

It calls for an establishment of an account to which all donated funds would be attributed when the donor indicates a desire that the funds be devoted to conservation at a given site. Parks Canada administers 171 federally recognized historic sites and defines over 970 more as historically significant.

I used to work in a historic site because Alberta had its own designation for it. What is very unique about the building is that it used to be the old Calgary Chamber of Commerce building. It used to be an Odd Fellows temple that was converted for use by the Chamber of Commerce. The entire building was not a historic site. Only the ballroom was considered a national historic site. What was unusual about the building as well was that it had two pubs built into it on two different floors. Working in a historic site like that, I came to appreciate the money that goes into maintaining it to keep it at the level where the building does not fall down and to make it usable for new generations to take advantage of, to use it for the purpose it was built for originally and for new purposes designed for it. Today, it is owned by an oil and gas company that also owns the Bow Tower across the street and is used for trading.

Bill C-315 would create a system that would basically manage donations and promote future donations. That is really important. A dedicated fund would not displace federal support that national historic sites receive today, but would complement, a point that was made by the member. We are not looking to replace federal or provincial government support for these sites but to complement and give Canadians and international visitors an opportunity to participate in the stewardship of national historic sites.

We as Conservatives believe in subsidiarity, which is the government closest to us is the one best placed to serve us. The principle involved in subsidiarity is that those closest to an action, item, or a place know it best and will be able to take care of it best.

When it comes to stewardship and conservation, they are both very conservative principles. We are stewards of our historic sites as we are stewards of Parliament and of the seats we are privileged to have on behalf of residents of our ridings, so we pass them on to the next generation. We are judged on how well we have done, by how well we have maintained them, how well we have used them, and whether they are still there for future generations to take advantage of.

I want to reserve the rest of my comments specifically on some of the points the parliamentary secretary made when presenting the government's position on this. The parliamentary secretary mentioned that this is already done by Parks Canada and a lot of this would be duplicative in some way. I do not believe that is the case. I do not believe it would limit donors in any way. The limits that Bill C-315 proposes on how the account is spent, meaning only the interest be spent on conservation of works, would give certainty to donors.

Having worked in the non-profit sector, that is an important concept. When donors give money, especially when we create a principal account to raise interest and only the interest is to be used for a purpose or goal, donors want to know that the money will be there 10, 20, 30, or 40 years afterward. The same principle applies when people are endowing a chair or professorship at a university. Donors want to have certainty that the money will be there in the future to sustain the initial purpose the money was given for. The same principle applies here.

Members of our communities and international visitors will have the certainty of knowing that of the dollars they give today and into the future, only the interest will be used to finance the operations and the maintenance of a national historic site.

The parliamentary secretary said that the bill specifically required that only the interest be used and that the principal itself would remain in the account in perpetuity. That is an important feature of the bill, an important bonus in the bill. It is not a defect in the bill; it is an advantage of the bill. This is a purposeful act by the member to ensure the principal will always be there and will accumulate over time, with only the interest being spent.

The Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund works exactly on this same principle. Although it has yo-yoed in the past because of market conditions, only the interest has been spent to finance government operations.

Last year, the parliamentary secretary said that the public donated a little more than $56,000 to national historic sites for various activities and programs. That is not a defect of the bill itself; it is an opportunity. It is a floor from where we can grow. It is a place to start getting Canadians to donate to national historic site maintenance, to increase the stewardship and the conservation goals of the specific sites they want to support. I do not think the amount somehow detracts from the goal of the bill, which is very laudable, it just creates a floor. We would have a metric to set ourselves by which would tell us if we had improved year over year and if we had made things better. The this is being cost effective.

The parliamentary secretary went deeply into details about how much money would actually be generated in order for it to be useful. The amounts are not as important as the goal. We can build a principal account over time. A dedicated account would achieve that goal. It could even be tracked over time. Donors could be told that if they donated an extra $50,000, $100,000, or even $100, it would help build up the account into the future. They would be helping a national historic site meet its goals.

We do the same thing when endowing professorships or chairmanships at schools, colleges, and universities. I have worked with human resources professionals. I remember considering endowing a chair in human resources labour relations in Alberta to further the professional goals of the association, much like what we are trying to do here, which is improving conservation and stewardship of national historic sites. The mechanism we do it by will give certainty to donors. They can be repeat donors and keep giving into the future. The $56,000 are just a floor. There are vast areas for improvement.

The last point I want to make is about international aid and government programs that provide matching funds.

The Rohingya crisis in Myanmar, or Burma, was mentioned again today in the House. The government will be matching funds. During the Fort McMurray fires, the government matched funds as well. This is just a comparison as we reflect on the contents of the bill.

A really good argument can be made that the amounts involved will not have a sizeable impact on the government's response to the Fort McMurray fires or the crisis in Myanmar, or Burma. However, it is not necessarily the amount of money that is given or the amount of money that will be matched by one side to another; it is the purpose and the goal. It gets people involved in taking meaningful action, with a meaningful goal and a purpose to it. The Rohingya crisis provides Canadians with an opportunity to play a part in making a better world. In the case of the Fort McMurray fires, it was an opportunity for Canadians from coast to coast to contribute to the recovery efforts, to contribute to the emergency aid that was being provided by the Red Cross.

It is not the amount that matters so much. It is the mechanism by which we provide donors with the certainty that their donation will be put toward that goal, and in this case, the conservation and stewardship for national historic sites, which is laudable.

This is a great bill. It is an excellent idea from a financial administration point of view. I heartily support it and I invite all members to do so as well.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Madam Speaker, I will be speaking today to Bill C-315, but I want to start by reminding the House and Canadians that today is a day of prayer for peace in Ukraine and throughout the world. Initiated in 2014, Prayer for Peace is organized to pray for an end to the undeclared but active war on the eastern boundary of Ukraine as well as an end to conflicts around the world. As members know, there are more than 1.2 million Ukrainians in Canada, and some day there may actually be a national historic site, hopefully, recognizing the contributions of Ukrainians to Canada. That is where Bill C-315 comes into play.

Bill C-315 is one of three heritage bills to be introduced in this Parliament, and it is one of the reasons why the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development has been looking at heritage issues this fall. While the committee's report is not yet finalized and therefore not public, I will draw on some of the testimony the committee has heard over the last few weeks.

First, though, I would like to speak about the background to this bill. I find it interesting and hopeful, quite frankly, that the bill was introduced by a member of the Conservative Party, because it was the previous Conservative government's cuts to heritage funding that contributed to the need for this legislation.

In the 2012 federal budget, the Conservatives cut $30 million from Parks Canada's budget, much of it aimed specifically at Canada's heritage programs, and 1,600 Parks Canada workers were told their jobs potentially would be cut. For the Rideau Canal, this meant shorter operating hours, longer lineups for boats waiting to get through the 23 lock stations, the possibility of higher user fees, and critical maintenance and repair work delayed or cancelled. The Rideau Canal is 202 kilometres long, stretching from Kingston to the Ottawa River just below Parliament Hill. Many communities along its route consider it a major tourist attraction and depend on the money the canal brings in from boaters and other tourists.

That is why, when the cuts were announced, the group called the Friends of the Rideau made an offer to the government that the group would fundraise and privately pay for necessary repairs. The previous Conservative government refused the group. It said there was no mechanism that allows a citizen or group of citizens to donate money to the government and have it spent on a specific heritage site. That is what Bill C-315 intends to remedy. It would allow an individual or a group to fundraise toward the upkeep for improvement of a federal heritage site and the money spent specifically on that site. The bill would also encourage donations through a tax credit.

The government's current position is that this is all possible under current legislation, but it has yet to inform the House what that mechanism is or where it can be found. In fact, when the Parliamentary Secretary for Status of Women spoke to this bill on October 6, he lamented that public donations, “when spread over as many as 171 national historic sites across the country...would not be enough to make a meaningful contribution to conservation efforts.” The parliamentary secretary is clearly missing the point of this bill. Bill C-315 would not encourage donations to be used in the National Parks general account, but to be targeted specifically to a single historic site of the donor's choosing. That is the mechanism currently lacking in existing legislation.

This is a small bill that would have very little if any impact on the government's finances, but would help communities and individuals like those around the Rideau Canal to ensure that heritage sites are preserved. We have 18 UNESCO World Heritage sites across Canada, including the Rideau Canal, and each of them is a source of local and national pride and a place for Canadians to visit, to learn, and to enjoy.

The study we are undertaking in the environment committee shows there is much to be done to protect heritage in Canada. In fact, the standing committee has heard that Canada is one of the few developed nations that does not have a law to protect our world heritage sites, nor do we have comprehensive legislation to protect historic sites or historic places. Therefore, we certainly hope to correct that through our study and our recommendations to the House.

The result of this gap in legislation is clear: sites like the Rideau Canal and Wood Buffalo National Park end up neglected by government until, to our national shame, UNESCO has to step in and recommend corrective actions. That is unacceptable, and it must be addressed.

While Bill C-315 would not provide all of the funding or the willpower to protect and preserve our national sites, it would give Canadians the opportunity, which does not exist under current legislation, to support those specific sites that are important to them. That is a good thing.

I am happy to support Bill C-315. It is well worth the support of all members of this chamber.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Speaker, on this October 31, 2017, I want to wish a Happy Hallowe'en to all members of Parliament and their families. Unfortunately, since we are here we will not be trick or treating with our children, but they are in our thoughts.

I am honoured to rise in the House today to support Bill C-315, an act to amend the Parks Canada Agency Act (Conservation of National Historic Sites Account), a private member's bill. Today I want to talk about the positive impact that this bill will have on tourism in the many communities in Canada that are home to our national historic sites. Local and international visitors are the bread and butter of those communities.

Through donations, this account would complement Parks Canada's budget for restoring, rehabilitating, and maintaining national historic sites, which would help the agency improve the appearance and draw of these sites, in some cases considerably.

I would like to mention that I am a member of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development where we are working on a report on historic site conservation. It is an important element that is in the same vein as this bill.

These newly restored sites would attract a growing number of visitors, and the revenue from admission fees and merchandising would enable Parks Canada to pay for more national and international advertising. It is important to understand that the development stage requires money. We know the government members opposite have money to burn and no concern for the deficit they are accumulating, but we on this side of the aisle feel it is important to secure the funding to finance our projects in accordance with the wishes of our generous donors.

Essentially, donations help improve the aesthetic appearance of these sites, drawing in more visitors. The increased admission fee revenue, in addition to new donations, will help Parks Canada maintain these sites, freeing up funds that could be used for more advertising, to give these sites greater international visibility. This is a winning cycle we cannot afford to pass up on.

Furthermore, our national historic sites give Canadians a powerful link to our rich history and our national identity. They also tell our story to the international community. Many foreign tourists are interested in learning about the history of our young country. Our historic sites are one of the best ways to tell everyone what made Canada the great and beautiful country it is today. They also symbolize the progress we have made over the past 150 years.

As a free and democratic nation, we have a duty to tell our story and share how we have overcome many challenges to get to where we are today.

Not many visitors will say that they have come to see us or are drawn to Canada because of our four seasons. Our greatest assets in the tourism industry are the rich history we have to share, our diverse culture, and our marvellous and beautiful sights. Not many Canadian destinations can count on sunny days or the perfect surfing conditions, so we need to be creative and make sure that the experience we are offering to tourists is worth it for them, both in terms of travel time and financial investment.

That is why we need to do everything we possibly can to ensure that our national historic sites are maintained, restored correctly, and refurbished based on how they are actually used. We need to ensure the Parks Canada has sufficient resources to adequately market our sites across Canada and around the world in order to attract visitors from all over.

Creating a legacy fund for each site will achieve that and will encourage new donations thanks to a comprehensive and transparent accountability framework that will provide future donors with peace of mind based on the assurance that their money is being used to maintain the sites that they know and love.

Increased donations will help improve the general appearance of the sites, and ultimately, will allow Parks Canada to promote our national historic sites through persuasive marketing thanks to increased revenues from a larger number of visitors.

All organizations need to do business development. I see this as an extra tool to help Parks Canada and the sites do business development and become even more competitive at attracting tourists. In addition to benefiting Parks Canada directly, more tourists visiting national historic sites will help the surrounding communities grow.

Tourists who visit any of these sites need transportation, accommodations, food, and entertainment during their stay. That means significant economic spinoffs for our local communities.

Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier has some amazing sites, including Saint-Raymond's internationally renowned vallée Bras-du-Nord in the RCM of Portneuf. Everyone is aware of the economic benefits it brings to the region. Lac-Beauport, another destination in my region, has the Sentiers du moulin, an enchanting site that is great for fat biking and national competitions. We are currently working on attracting international interest. It is important for our rural regions to be able to survive with help from the economic impact of tourist attractions.

Every family that visits will spend a significant amount of money just by being in our communities. That money will go to the small businesses that are the pillar of our tourism industry. Nearly 98% of the tourist industry is made up of small and medium-sized businesses that, unlike the major chains, depend on seasonal tourism to stay in business and feed their families. Although these companies are smaller, they are a big draw for international tourists who are discovering the beautiful regions of Canada. Local businesses are recognized for their ability to work with major destination marketing companies. These companies work to attract international tourists and encourage them to come and try our restaurants and hotels, see shows, and visit our national historic sites, which make our country a popular destination.

By helping Parks Canada to improve the general appearance of its sites and by ensuring that they are well maintained, we can promote Canada's history and help these small businesses promote themselves.

By growing tourism through the promotion of our national historic sites, we will also promote neighbouring communities and contribute to their success. That means we will be supporting the 1,700,000 people who work in the tourism industry every year, many of whom are women, young people, immigrants, and members of other groups who, unfortunately, have no job stability because of the seasonal nature of the business. Over 50,000 youth between the ages of 15 and 24 work in the tourism industry, which accounts for over one-third of youth employment opportunities. Tourism provides full-time and part-time job opportunities in a wide variety of areas, including transportation, lodging, entertainment, and the food industry.

Furthermore, Parks Canada provides many of these jobs. During the peak season, it employs more than 2,100 workers in full-time indeterminate positions, 1,900 in seasonal jobs, and hires some 1,100 students. In addition to employment and other direct benefits for Canadians, tourism is also a source of revenue. For example, tourism revenues totalled $21.4 billion in 2011. This is important when the government is looking for revenue streams and sources of revenue. According to estimates, every $100 spent by a foreign visitor generates $30 in taxes compared to $26 generated by domestic spending.

There is no better time than the present to promote our historic sites to Canadian and international tourists. International tourism is booming and it is very important to provide this industry with the tools it needs to grow.

If we want Canada to be considered an attractive destination and not just a bargain, we must support the maintenance, restoration, and rehabilitation of many historic sites. That means that Parks Canada must have the resources needed to maintain and promote our historic sites and to entice visitors to come and see them.

Bill C-315 will do just that. By encouraging donations to be used for maintenance and everything that goes with it, we will make it possible for Parks Canada to attract more visitors by making its sites more attractive tourist destinations. For all these reasons, I hope members will join me—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

I am sorry, but the member's time has expired.

Resuming debate. The member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes has the floor and five minutes for his right of reply.

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank the members for Calgary Shepard, Kootenay—Columbia, and Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier for their support for this bill.

I am pleased to speak once again to Bill C-315, an act to amend the Parks Canada Agency Act. It is a bill to amend the act with regard to the conservation of national historic sites. As I mentioned the last time I spoke to this bill, it would establish separate accounts for individual Parks Canada sites, to which people could donate money and be issued tax receipts for. That money could be kept in a fund, similar to a foundation, and the interest earned on it would be used for the preservation of particular sites.

Again, as I mentioned before, this idea was brought forward during intense discussions about the Rideau Canal a few years ago. When researching the possibility of being able to donate money, we found some interesting things. There was no mechanism for people to donate to specific historic sites managed by Parks Canada. In the last hour of debate on this bill, government members said there already was, but we have done significant research on this and found that not to be the case.

We know there are many people who want to donate. We already heard from the member for Kootenay—Columbia about people along the Rideau Canal who wanted to give money during the significant discussions on the future of the Rideau Canal. The Conservative government at the time announced over $40 million toward infrastructure, and in fairness to the current government, it made announcements after the election supplementing that funding, which is all good news. I think all members support national historic sites and this bill would create a mechanism for those who want to donate to do so, despite several speakers suggesting during the last hour that it is not possible.

There are a number of national historic sites in my riding that are managed by Parks Canada, including Fort Wellington. For example, if a wall were crumbling at Fort Wellington and a friends group wanted to raise money from the public to help repair that wall, it could be organized and accomplished if this bill were to pass. Right now, people can donate to Parks Canada. However, that money goes to the overall Parks Canada budget and does not allow people to donate to specific sites. Many Canadians have an affinity to national historic sites. They visited them as children, they are in their regions, and they have a personal affinity to those sites and want to contribute to them. Right now, there is no mechanism to do that.

I conducted a Google search to see what would happen if I asked how to give money to Parks Canada, and these are some of the sources that I found: “Understanding The Parks Canada Entry Fees”, “Working at Parks Canada”, and “Parks Canada's diversified accommodation reservation policies”. I found a number of different suggestions. On page 4 of the search results, there was a link to the speech I gave just a few weeks ago, but by page 9, the search engine began to refer to peripheral mentions of Parks Canada in speeches and other documents that had little or nothing to do with Parks Canada.

I tried the same search but identifying the Rideau Canal as the only recipient, instead of Parks Canada. By the end of the first page, I found, “Observations on the Inland Navigation of Ireland”. Many members would be familiar with the Redpath Sugar company. It retains in its museum a silver cup that was given to Mr. Redpath by Lieutenant Colonel John By when he was building the Rideau Canal. They are very proud of their connection to the Rideau Canal's heritage and representatives of Redpath wrote a letter in support of this bill. They have also made substantial donations to programs and projects along the canal, but they have not been able to do it specifically for the canal itself.

Earlier today, the Speaker ruled that this bill needed a royal recommendation to be passed. Members come here with private members' bills and we hope they all have an opportunity to look at them. I am encouraging members to vote for this bill and send it to committee so we can find a better way to support Canada's national historic sites.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to Standing Order 93, the division stands deferred until Wednesday, November 1, immediately before the time provided for private members' business.

The House resumed from October 6 consideration of the motion that Bill C-315, An Act to amend the Parks Canada Agency Act (Conservation of National Historic Sites Account), be read the second time and referred to a committee.