Bill C-15 (Historical)

United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act

An Act respecting the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

This enactment provides that the Government of Canada must take all measures necessary to ensure that the laws of Canada are consistent with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and must prepare and implement an action plan to achieve the objectives of the Declaration.

[Dr. Heather Exner-Pirot]

Absolutely. I think sometimes the federal government has a tendency to put up more barriers and to see indigenous peoples as people to be protected, rather than removing barriers so that they can interact with industry more directly. Bill C-69, and even Bill C-15, I think, are examples of that.

As for ways you can improve it, groups like the First Nations Major Project Coalition do an excellent job. If there's a bottleneck, it's because indigenous nations need to do their own due diligence. They want to get their own environmental monitoring. Supporting them to get through those due diligence processes will reap so many benefits, I think, in shortening timelines and approvals.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the eighth report of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs in relation to Bill C-15, an act respecting the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. The committee has studied the bill and has decided to report the bill back to the House with amendments.

Indigenous Affairs

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Madam Speaker, I acknowledge that I am speaking from the unceded territory of the Algonquin people.

I wish the member and everyone a happy Earth Day, as it is a historic day in many ways in the issues she highlighted. First and foremost, the Government of Canada is renewing Canada's relationship with indigenous people based on the affirmation of rights, respect, co-operation and partnership. Since 2016, we have taken a range of important measures that contribute to a renewed, respectful Crown-indigenous relationship and that align both section 35 of our Constitution and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

As my friend knows, as she was part of the Bill C-15 deliberations today, we were able to pass this milestone legislation to committee and off to the other place. As of today, nine federal laws that refer to the declaration have been implemented with regard to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which is a very important document. As I indicated, this historical document will now become Canadian law within weeks.

This legislation represents a fundamental shift in the relationship with indigenous peoples by recognizing rights articulated through the declaration. We are committed to ongoing discussions to make progress together, advancing reconciliation, improving community well-being and renewing Crown-indigenous relationships. In a nutshell, Bill C-15 is about protecting and promoting indigenous rights, including the rights to self-determination and self-government, equality and non-discrimination on the basis of forging stronger relationships with first nations, Inuit and Métis.

The Government of Canada has developed or updated policies and guidance to be consistent with both the declaration and Canada's constitutional framework. These policies assist federal officials in their work when it involves indigenous peoples and helps contribute to the implementation of the declaration. We are at over 150 active negotiation tables with more than 500 communities representing over one million indigenous people to support their visions of self-determination. Our government has also co-developed a new, innovative recognition of rights policy framework with the B.C. government and the First Nations Summit to improve the treaty process and better advance self-determination in British Columbia.

Our government remains committed to a renewed and respectful relationship with indigenous people.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I'm new to this, but I would like to know exactly what I'm voting on. I do have the proposed amendments, the documents sent to me on this computer. On my other computer, I actually have Bill C-15, but the proposed amendment is saying line 3 on page 5. In my Bill C-15, I don't have any page number or line number. I'm not sure where the amendment is going. It would be nice to know exactly what the proposed change is.

Is there a document that I'm missing here that would make this easier for me?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I move to amend Bill C-15 in clause 4 by deleting lines 2 to 4 on page 5.

We heard repeatedly from testimony that this piece of the bill does not really do anything. It is merely a notional statement. It doesn't change the way the laws in Canada operate. I recommend that we just strike that from the bill and that this bill be only to provide a framework for the government to implement the declaration.

We heard from Adam Bond, the legal counsel for NWAC, that this was merely window dressing. I would say that it would be better not to have this piece in the bill so that it would not signal in any way that the declaration becomes Canadian law. I think it's important that we strike this from the bill so that we are saying what we mean and meaning what we say when we're legislating in this country.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

This is that Bill C-15, in clause 4, be amended by replacing line 1 on page 5 in the English version with “The purposes of the Act are to”.

It then continues forward.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

This is our proposed amendment that Bill C-15, in clause 2, be amended by adding after line 25 on page 4 the following:

For greater certainty, the rights of Indigenous peoples, including treaty rights, are capable of growth and evolution, and a frozen rights theory is incompatible with section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982.

The importance of a clear definition of the living tree doctrine has been brought up by elected and unelected leadership throughout the country, and my amendment reflects that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much, Ms. Atwin. I appreciate your intervention.

I'll go back once again to the review of the matter, which was that Bill C-15 is providing that the Government of Canada must “take all measures necessary to ensure that the laws of Canada are consistent with” the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People and must “prepare and implement an action plan to achieve the objectives of the Declaration.”

The amendment seeks to give the term “Government of Canada” the meaning of “government institution” as it is defined in section 3 of the Access to Information Act. Thus, the term “Government of Canada” would have a broader meaning.

House of Commons Procedure and Practice, that giant book I referred to, third edition, states the following on page 770:

An amendment to a bill that was referred to committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.

In the opinion of the chair, based on consultation with the legislative group, this new definition of “Government of Canada” is beyond the scope of the bill, and so I would rule that this amendment is inadmissible.

On that matter, unless there's further discussion, Ms. Atwin, I will leave the ruling as such, that your proposed amendment is inadmissible.

[Jenica Atwin, Green, Fredericton, NB]

Sure. This is PV-0.1. I'm just making sure.... Okay, great.

Thanks you very much, everyone, for letting me join today. I'm really appreciative. Happy Earth Day as well.

I'm coming from the unceded territory of the Wolastoqiyik, the beautiful and bountiful river here in Fredericton, New Brunswick, where I am privileged to work, learn and live.

The amendment I would like to propose is in clause 2, by adding after line 11 on page 4 the following: “Government of Canada has the meaning assigned by the definition government institution in section 3 of the Access to Information Act.”

What this expands upon is:

(a) any department or ministry of state of the Government of Canada, or any body or office, listed in Schedule 1, and

(b) any parent Crown corporation, and any wholly-owned subsidiary of such a corporation, within the meaning of section 83 of the Financial Administration Act;

By means of explaining and defending this amendment, it actually came forward through proposed amendments from the Assembly of First Nations. The objective of this amendment is to enshrine a clear and positive statement that the legislation binds the Crown and all institutions of the government. Bill C-15 does not expressly affirm that it binds Her Majesty The Queen in Right of Canada and all of its institutions. It may be implied, but I'm certainly here just to strengthen the legislation as much as possible.

While arguments can be made that Bill C-15 would implicitly or necessarily bind the Crown, because its purpose would be frustrated and contrary to the spirit of the act if the Crown or all Government of Canada institutions were not bound, the courts on this point are by no means clear or consistent in their interpretation. Federal legislation is likewise inconsistent. In light of this inconsistency and ambiguity, clear and unequivocal expression of legislation intent is required.

Again, I'm taking the lead here from some of the discussion that the Assembly of First Nations has put forward, and I ask for your consideration.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Members of the committee, as we have quorum, I call this meeting to order, acknowledging first of all that in Ottawa we meet on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin people, and all of us in our own territories will have other acknowledgements. In my case it would be Akwesasne, Haudenosaunee and Chonnonton first nations' traditional territories.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108 (2) and the motion adopted by the committee on October 27, 2020, the committee is resuming its clause-by-clause study of Bill C-15.

It's going to be an interesting day. I just want to thank everyone, first of all, for the way that these meetings have been conducted with regard to Bill C-15. There's some controversy, there are some differences of opinion, but I think all of our remarks, our debates and our considerations were in the best interests of the people for whom we are working, the first nations of Canada. I appreciate that. I would anticipate that today's meeting will be conducted in the same manner.

Having looked over all of the matters that are coming before us in conjunction and in consultation with the legislative clerks, I may be making some rulings as the chair. I want to assure everybody that none of the rulings will be on a partisan basis. They all have to do with the legislative functions, protocols and precedents and so on that are found in that giant green book that only the clerks seem to have a good handle on.

I'm working my way through it. I know that our clerk has reached page 250; I'm still somewhere in the preface. We'll do our best with regard to the rules of Parliament as we move forward.

With us today we have the witnesses from the Department of Justice: Laurie Sargent, assistant deputy minister, aboriginal affairs portfolio; Sandra Leduc, director and general counsel, Aboriginal Law Centre, aboriginal affairs portfolio; and Koren Marriott, senior counsel, Aboriginal Law Centre, aboriginal affairs portfolio.

In clause-by-clause consideration, the one thing I will ask us not to do is rush things through. We want to make sure that when we're done our work today, it is in a form presentable to Parliament. We'll therefore begin slowly.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75 (1), consideration of the preamble and of clause 1, the short title, was postponed, as per the precedents and order of work that we do. I will now call clause 2.

(On clause 2)

Clause 2 of Bill C-15 provides that the Government of Canada must “take all measures necessary to ensure that the laws of Canada are consistent with” the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and “must...prepare and implement an action plan to achieve the objectives of the Declaration.”

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Recently I received a letter from the Royal Society of Canada. This is a senior colloquium of public intellectuals, academics and scholars who support Bill C-15. I believe their input is valuable and should be incorporated into the study of Bill C-15, and I would like to put forward a motion to do so.

Earlier today I sent out the English version of the letter to committee members for reference and provided a copy to the committee clerk. Unfortunately, the Royal Society of Canada did not provide a French-language version. However, if adopted it would of course be translated and made available in both official languages.

Therefore, I move that, in relation to its study of Bill C-15, the committee accept the brief provided by the Royal Society of Canada.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'm going to take a totally different angle here, so I will back off the legal stuff.

There has been a lot of talk with people at committee, over the time we have been hearing from witnesses, about the action plan and how the action plan.... Even the minister, I believe, talked about how the heavy lifting isn't going to be done in the action plan. There has, however, been a lot of talk about maybe doing that action plan prior to the introduction of the legislation, rather than letting the legislation invoke the action plan.

I will open this up to everybody. Was there any discussion in any of the departments about working on the action plan during the time between Bill C-262 and Bill C-15? Was any thought ever given to doing some of that heavy lifting prior to introducing the new Bill C-15?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank our witnesses for joining us for this discussion.

I'm not going to address my question to anyone specifically. Whoever wants to jump in, please do so.

One thing that has interested me is that we've heard a lot from indigenous people and organizations who don't feel there has been adequate consultation on Bill C-15. We've even heard testimony in this committee from some indigenous organizations.... The Native Women's Association comes to mind. This is a group that had expressed concerns about the consultation process. I find it quite ironic that when we talk about Bill C-15, obviously the government has been emphasizing that it is brought forward in the spirit of reconciliation. However, there seem to be some gaps and some failures of adequate consultation with indigenous peoples.

To me, this runs contrary to what the government is trying to do. I do not doubt for a second the intentions of this bill; however, it seems that the government has missed the mark.

Again, whoever wants to jump in may. I'm wondering whether anyone can share some insights into the consultation process that has happened for Bill C-15 and say whether you believe there could have been a greater diversity of indigenous organizations represented in this consultation.

[Laurie Sargent]

It is certainly something we are mindful of and reflecting on in light of the experience leading up to the introduction of Bill C-15. We recognized that the legislation had undergone a great deal of engagement already and that there was some urgency to bringing it forward. Therefore, the engagement process was shorter than many would have liked.

That said, moving forward, with respect to the action plan, we are absolutely wanting to engage more broadly. On that, I'd be pleased to turn it over to my colleague, Ross Pattee, who's also thinking about this through the lens of the work that Crown-Indigenous Relations does in engaging with indigenous peoples. We see it as a joint project going forward.

With the permission of the chair, I'd like to pass the question over to Ross for some further response.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you Ms. Sargent.

The Minister did not have the time to talk about section 35 and section 15. As I pointed out, those who are not in favour of Bill C-15 will tell us that it adds nothing to section 35 and they want none of it.

What would you say to those people?