This bill was last introduced in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session, which ended in August 2021.
David Lametti Liberal
This bill has received Royal Assent and is now law.
This is from the published bill.
This enactment provides that the Government of Canada must take all measures necessary to ensure that the laws of Canada are consistent with the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and must prepare and implement an action plan to achieve the objectives of the Declaration.
All sorts of information on this bill is available at LEGISinfo, an excellent resource from the Library of Parliament. You can also read the full text of the bill.
The Chair Liberal Bob Bratina
I call this meeting to order, acknowledging first of all that in Ottawa we meet on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin people.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on February 25, 2021, the committee is continuing its study on the subject matter of Bill C-15, an act respecting the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and to make related and consequential amendments to other acts.
Before I continue, I see that Ms. Gill has her hand up.
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
I want to move to Minister Bennett now.
I appreciate the conversation earlier about Bill C-15. I very much encourage you to talk to your government and to make sure we actually see it being debated in the House. We saw what happened in the last Parliament. I certainly don't want to see that happen again. It needs to be debated. I appreciate that the committee is doing the prestudy, but if we're not debating it in the House, the process isn't happening so I encourage you to do that.
One of the questions I have for you around reconciliation is on the issue—and you and I have talked about this, Carolyn—of enforcement. We heard in the last study we did about the impacts of COVID-19 on indigenous communities that one of the biggest challenges was their inability to enforce the band bylaws. They weren't able to call somebody when people were gathering in bigger groups. We've heard again and again in different studies that enforcement continues to be a challenge. Local police or the RCMP don't know how to follow through on certain things. There seems to be a disconnect between the governance structures and the local law enforcement, and that's continuing to bring up big issues.
I'm just wondering if there's any commitment from your government to help bridge that gap so that we can see more reconciliation.
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
We are all very grateful for that work and consultation.
On the theme of consultation, Bill C-15 requires that the designated minister “must, in consultation and cooperation with Indigenous peoples and with other federal ministers, prepare and implement an action plan to achieve the objectives of the Declaration.”
This has come up quite a few times at this committee and I've heard it discussed as well. Is this just a statement, or will action come out of it? I think this committee would really benefit from your sentiments and thoughts on what this government bill would produce in terms of action and on the process, preparation and implementation of that action plan.
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'm joining today from the traditional territory of the Haudenosaunee, the Huron-Wendat, the Anishinabe, the Attawandaron and more recently the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation, as well as many others. I'm very grateful to be joining you here and talking about these important issues.
Speaking of important issues, I'm a strong believer that Bill C-15, on the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, is some of the most important work we'll be doing on this committee.
Minister Bennett, I know you'll be coming back next month to discuss Bill C-15 and how important it is with us. The supplementary estimates include additional funding for that bill.
I am hoping you could give us a sense of the engagement that the government has done to develop the bill. It's been a hot topic of discussion among us, particularly with our indigenous partners. Give us a bit of a prelude for Bill C-15, if you could.
Carolyn Bennett LiberalMinister of Crown-Indigenous Relations
Kwe kwe, unnusakkut, tansi, hello, bonjour.
I am speaking to you today from the traditional territory of the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation. I wish to honour the waters they paddled and their moccasins, which walked these lands.
Mr. Chair, it is an honour to appear again before this committee today, to discuss my department's supplementary estimates (C), as well as its 2021-22 main estimates.
I am appearing with my colleague the Minister of Northern Affairs, and supported by our officials, led by Deputy Minister Daniel Quan-Watson.
The COVID-19 pandemic has presented challenges to everyone in Canada, especially people living in first nations, Inuit and Métis communities. The priority of indigenous leadership has been to keep their people safe.
From the very beginning, our government has been there to support first nations, Inuit and Métis communities through the fight against COVID-19, with daily calls with the three ministers. We are so grateful for the truly amazing public servants who are working 24-7. We'll be there as we work towards the recovery and building back better—socially, economically and environmentally.
Reconciliation and self-determination are essential to a strong recovery and represent the core of my mandate. No one wants to go back to normal. We now have the opportunity to bring all Canadians with us as we accelerate the progress to self-determination and support indigenous communities as they implement their own visions for the future.
Our commitment to advancing reconciliation and accelerating self-determination is reflected not only in the estimates being considered today but in everything we do on a day-to-day basis. The 2020-21 supplementary estimates (C) reflect a net increase of $138.6 million for CIRNAC, which brings the total budgetary authorities for 2020-21 to $6.9 billion.
Some of the key priorities that funding from the supplementary estimates (C) will support include the implementation of the Métis government recognition and self-government agreements, the implementation of Canada's collaborative self-government fiscal policy, engagement to support the introduction of Bill C-15 and the coordination and implementation of the national action plan on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, two-spirit and LGBTQQIA+ people.
Notably, the $35.6 million to implement the Métis government recognition and self-government agreements signed with the Métis Nation of Ontario, the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan, and the Métis Nation of Alberta will support their visions of self-determination and their ability to determine their own political, economic, social and cultural development. The $8.2 million for fiscal transfer agreements with self-governing indigenous governments will support ongoing funding to these governments, as well as enforcement activities under the Teslin Tlingit Council Administration of Justice Agreement.
In addition, $5.2 million is assigned to support the engagement process of Bill C-15. The current version of the bill, built on the momentum and support from indigenous groups for the former private member's bill of Romeo Saganash, Bill C-262, is a reflection of our ongoing engagement with indigenous partners. Moving forward on Bill C-15 is the right thing to do, and I look forward to working closely with all of you during your examination of the bill over the next few weeks and on potential further improvements to the bill. We are grateful for your prestudy.
The funding of $2.6 million over three years for missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, two-spirit and LGBTQQIA+ people will help ensure that survivors and family members can continue to meaningfully participate in the development and ongoing implementation of the national action plan. The MMIWG secretariat, led out of CIRNAC, will provide support to the national family and survivors circle to ensure that it is included, supported and connected with all the working groups and at the very centre of the process.
The 2021-22 main estimates for Crown-Indigenous Relations will be approximately $4.7 billion. While this reflects a net decrease of $189 million, or 4%, compared with last year's main estimates, this is mainly due to the anticipated settlement of claims. Also, as you know, main estimates do not reflect the additional funding made available throughout the year through the supplementary estimates and cannot ever be viewed as a complete picture of intended spending.
In closing, I know you all agree that the top priority of this government during this difficult time has been the safety and physical and mental health of all Canadians, including first nations, Inuit and Métis people and especially their elders. I'm proud that even in these extraordinary times, our government has continued to advance reconciliation, right wrongs and accelerate self-determination for indigenous peoples in Canada.
Meegwetch. Qujannamiik. Marci. Thank you.
Sylvie Bérubé Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Does Bill C-15 have a precise definition of free, prior and informed consent?
That is an important aspect that must be considered in the debate about Bill C-15.
In this whole debate, what must be understood is that various legal frameworks deal with the rights of indigenous peoples. Of course, section 35 of the Constitution is a major legal framework, a constitutional framework, no less. Treaties and international law are other major legal frameworks. There is also Indigenous law. We have our own laws.
Those four legal frameworks are distinct, but they strengthen each other and are interrelated. They are frameworks that we as Indigenous peoples can use to stand up for our inherent rights and our treaty rights.
I do not. For a long time, the chairperson of the working group on indigenous populations would repeat at every session of negotiations that “this declaration does not create new rights”, that it just confirms inherent rights of indigenous peoples, the pre-existing rights of indigenous peoples.
I think this question is not relevant in my mind, because both Bill C-15 and the UN declaration reaffirm that these are pre-existing and inherent rights.
I think it's important to re-emphasize that point. When we say that our rights are inherent or pre-existing, it means that no one has given us those rights, that we possess them as indigenous people and indigenous peoples.
What this bill does is recognize and affirm that very essential and fundamental fact that all of these 46 rights that UNDRIP enshrines are inherent and pre-existing. That is the very reason why courts have been using the UN declaration to interpret aboriginal rights here and abroad. There are specific countries that were mentioned. In Colombia, Guatemala and Belize, courts have interpreted indigenous rights in those countries based on what the content of the UN declaration was, yet these countries do not have Bill C-15 legislation which confirms that UNDRIP has application in their national law.
I think that is the important aspect of the law in this discussion. That includes, of course, the right to self-determination and the right to free, prior and informed consent. These are human rights. We're in 2021, and I think it's grand time that all politicians, all members of Parliament, stand up, recognize and uphold those human rights of indigenous peoples, of the first peoples in this country.
Jaime Battiste Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Thank you. I'd like to start off by asking Romeo Saganash a question.
Romeo, I want to start off by acknowledging your work on this and getting it to where it is right now. I want to say how deeply I appreciate your work on this over the years. As you know, my father and Alex Denny, the Grand Captain of the Mi'kmaq nation, were going to the United Nations for years in trying to implement indigenous self-determination.
You noted earlier that UNDRIP and Bill C-15 are the minimum standards. Rights such as section 35 rights are talking about pre-existing inherent rights. The preamble of UNDRIP speaks to “the urgent need to respect and promote the inherent rights of indigenous peoples”.
As in your earlier comments, why is it an important point to know that these are pre-existing inherent rights?
Absolutely not. It doesn't. I think that Bill C-15 just confirms that this international human rights instrument, like all other international human rights instruments, has application within law, in the sense that any court, in its impartiality, can refer to this international document to interpret domestic law.
It's the opposite. I think it's from a domestic perspective that we need to consider these other documents to interpret the rights in this country, so it serves...in that sense.
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Another concern raised by opponents of Bill C-15 relates to the claim that Bill C-15 domesticates or Canadianizes the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
Do you agree with this assertion?
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
Thank you.
Romeo, the committee recently received a letter from the Confederacy of Treaty Six First Nations, basically cautioning that Bill C-15 will have an effect of changing the definition of “indigenous persons” as defined in international law.
Can you speak to this important matter? Has the UN ever adopted a definition of “indigenous people”?
As I mentioned earlier, I did send a copy of the study the UN did on the concept of free, prior and informed consent. I invite all members of the committee to review it. It's an important document for your consideration, especially when considering Bill C-15.
Free means no coercion or intimidation. For instance, I can give you the example of the Site C dam where BC Hydro intimidated the opponents of the project with lawsuits of $4.3 million per individual. That's called intimidation. You're not allowed to do that.
No coercion, no intimidation is what free stands for.
Prior means these discussions for this engagement with indigenous peoples that may be impacted by a project need to happen prior to any decision taken about a project.
Informed means that we need to have access to studies and information that is readily accessible to the people you represent. For instance, for a long time Hydro Québec provided the Cree with studies about the impacts of their projects on my people but solely in French, not in English, not in Cree, so we cannot be informed if that's how things are going to happen.
All three of these steps need to happen prior to embarking on a specific activity and that's how Thierry Rodon, who testified in the first hour, talks about this. I read his paper, and it's consistent with what the UN has been saying about free, prior and informed consent.
Like all human rights, the right to free, prior and informed consent is a relative right. You need to take other factors into consideration, whereas a veto is an absolute concept that doesn't take into consideration the law or the facts or circumstances of a given case.
Thank you for your question, Mrs. Gill. It is always a pleasure to see you again. Thank you for the work you are doing on behalf of the Bloc Québécois on all these matters.
I mentioned in my introduction that there are differences between the French and English versions of Bill C-15. Subsection 2(2) is a good example of that.
Here is what it says in English:
This Act is to be construed as upholding the rights of Indigenous peoples recognized and affirmed by section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982, and not as abrogating or derogating from them.
But here is what it says in French:
2(2) La présente loi maintient les droits des peuples autochtones reconnus et confirmés par l’article 35 de la Loi constitutionnelle de 1982; elle n’y porte pas atteinte.
The two versions are different. Actually, I prefer the French version; it is much clearer as to the intent of this provision of Bill C-15.