Bill C-10

Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation Act

An Act respecting the Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation

This enactment provides for the appointment of a Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation to conduct reviews and performance audits of the activities of government institutions related to the implementation of modern treaties. It also establishes the Office of the Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation for the purpose of assisting the Commissioner in the fulfillment of their mandate and the exercise of their powers and the performance of their duties and functions. Finally, it makes consequential amendments to other Acts.

Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation Act

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Mirabel, a member of the Bloc Québécois, is right. There are other problems in his riding, like environmental justice or environmental and toxic threats. I know them well.

Bill C‑10 is not the answer to every problem facing indigenous peoples, but it is certainly a vital step in that direction and I would ask all of my colleagues to vote for it.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when my kids were younger, they used to sing a song that went, “Your talk talks and your walk talks, but your walk talks louder than your talk talks”. It feels to me that this member has a lot of experience in the House, certainly a lot more than I do. Does she feel truly confident that this is not just more talk from a bureaucracy that will do absolutely nothing to truly help create these treaties in the way they should be?

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague for a very fair question.

What I put my belief in is what the people who asked for this think, those who have co-created this proposal, this creation of a commissioner with audit and reporting powers and the ability to push and report to Parliament. It might not be what I would come up with, but who cares? I am a settler member of Parliament, and I work for first nations in my own community.

The modern treaty nations and the coalition worked on these issues day and night, and they have been patient. This is what they want.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the member could provide her thoughts on this idea of having a commissioner, someone who is appointed for seven years. When we look at the appointment process itself, I suspect we are going to see someone with an immense amount of real-life experience, who brings a lot of knowledge to the table that even the Auditor General would not be able to reflect on when it comes time to present a report. I wonder if she could provide her thoughts on the potential of the individual taking the position and the many attributes he or she might be able to bring to the table in coming up with recommendations.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, all I can say is that it is not for me to imagine the attributes.

I asked the leaders of the Land Claims Agreements Coalition whether they had been thinking about what attributes the commissioner would have, what kind of person it would be. Yes, they are confident they will be consulted. Yes, they are confident this person will have the kind of wisdom and the attributes that come from an indigenous world view to bring forward, to hold to account any government, the current government or the next government, through audit, pressure, transparency and the first word, of course, of the late Murray Sinclair in his work as commissioner, “truth” and reconciliation. This commissioner could get to the truth and report it back. That is an essential step in reconciliation.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, again, what I am looking at is the idea of an investment. One of the criticisms of the legislation from the Conservatives is the cost factor. I would ultimately argue that the cost is easily justified by looking at what the commissioner is going to be able to do, not only from within indigenous communities, but in Canada as a whole, especially if we factor in the need for reconciliation.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would, again, ask colleagues to consider what we have before us as an opportunity in this country to reimagine ourselves. Canada is the best country in the world, there is no question, but could we not, as the Order of Canada's slogan says, desire a better country? This does not mean somewhere else; this means here. Becoming a better country means facing a legacy of abuse and recognizing that this will cost some money, but it is a pittance. It is crumbs off the table compared to what we owe indigenous people across Turtle Island for taking their land, stealing their culture and banning them from speaking their own languages. Land back is an essential part. These modern treaties are progress, but if they stall, they are not progress; they are just another broken promise.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate my colleague across the way's thoughts on this topic. I think one of the greatest frustrations I have had throughout the debate today is the fact that nothing is stopping the current government, the Liberal government, from moving forward on modern treaties today. It is creating another officer of Parliament in this legislation, to presumably hold it accountable, but we have seen, time and time again, the government not listening to reports from the Auditor General, whose job it is to hold the government to account and shed light on those areas and those gaps right now.

I am wondering if the member shares my concern and the concern from this side of the aisle that this could turn into just another situation in which the Liberal government is ignoring the recommendations and the information brought forward.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, again, this is a very fair question. No one in the opposition parties is going to say it is a good idea because it belongs to one party or another. If the Conservatives had formed government, I would say the same thing: It could just be something they say they are going to do. With the Liberals there is also a track record.

I do not want to make this partisan. All I know is this: I am humbled by the extraordinary patience of the peoples and the chiefs. The Land Claims Agreements Coalition has worked for more than 20 years now to get to this point where, through consultation and co-operation, it came up with this proposal. It will not solve all of the problems, and we will have to hold it accountable too, but right now, if this dies or if it takes too long to pass, I do not know why first nations, Métis or Inuit people would believe a single word out of our mouths ever again, any of us, from any party.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it has been a pleasure to participate in the debate through questions and comments today, and it is an honour to finally be able to rise and deliver my remarks on this important topic. Before I get into the substance of that, I would like to mention that I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Chatham-Kent—Leamington. He is a great colleague, and he has a wealth of knowledge on a number of subjects. I look forward to hearing his comments very shortly, but before that, members will have to endure my own comments, so I apologize for that.

We are here discussing Bill C-10 respecting the commissioner for modern treaty implementation. Before addressing the substance of Bill C-10 directly, I want to state unequivocally that, for myself and for the Conservative Party of Canada, we support the treaty rights of all indigenous peoples and the process of reconciliation. We also know that more needs to be done to support self-determination and self-government for first nations and indigenous communities across the country. There has been progress, and steps have been taken along the way, but there is much more that needs to be done when it comes to fostering that self-government.

As mentioned a few times in debate and in discussion on this piece of legislation, I am very proud that the last Conservative government got five modern treaties done within a six-year time frame. That is something that brings me great pride. Of course, I was not around for that government. I was not voting yet; I was not of age to do that at that point, but nonetheless, it is something that brings me some pride. If we contrast that with the record we have seen from the Liberal government, it has been in power for a decade and has achieved zero modern treaties. That is definitely a cause for concern, which has been mentioned many times in the discussion today. That is why so many people across the country, particularly indigenous leaders, are calling for change.

I want to talk a bit about the history. I think it is important to note that this has been a long process, this modern treaty process. It goes all the way back to 1973 when the Supreme Court decision recognized indigenous rights. In fact, it was the first time indigenous land rights were recognized in Canadian law. Modern treaties were a result of that, and these treaties enabled indigenous people to build their nations and communities on their own terms, addressing matters from use of land to resources and from economic development to environmental protections, and many more important aspects of their nations.

It is one thing to sign these treaties. It is another thing to honour them. I think that goes for the historical treaties as well. I come from a district in northwestern Ontario that includes, with the redistribution, 38 first nation communities across the territories of Treaty Nos. 3, 5 and 9. I live in Kenora, Ontario, which is part of Treaty No. 3. I hear constantly from indigenous leaders and non-indigenous residents about the need to honour the treaty and honour the intent of the treaty. That is something the government is still not living up to when it comes to those historical treaties, never mind the modern treaties.

I just wanted to put that out there, because I think it is easy for politicians to talk about and it is easy for the government to say the right thing, but it is the follow-through and actual honouring of the treaties that is of utmost importance.

That brings me to the Liberal record. We have heard lots of promises and seen very little action over the last 10 years. When it comes to drinking water, something the government made big promises on, if memory serves me correctly, 2019 was the year all the drinking water advisories were supposed to have been eliminated. We know that many persist today, and many are in northern Ontario.

We have heard big promises on infrastructure beyond that, in first nations and in indigenous communities, that the government does not live up to. We have had discussions today about the TRC calls to action and the fact that the vast majority of these calls to action remain incomplete. I believe, within the scope of what the federal government can control, by my count, only 10 of the federal calls to action have been completed.

Another issue is that which we will be getting into at the indigenous and northern affairs committee shortly, and that is first nations policing, by no doubt an essential service but something that has not been designated as such. It was in the fall of 2022 that Marco Mendicino was the minister of public safety; he said it was just around the corner and that there would be legislation coming that fall. That was three years ago, and we have seen nothing since.

It has been crickets from this government in terms of recognizing the essential work that first nation police services do, and I have heard so many stories from the first nations police services in my riding about the fact that they are hamstrung and stuck in a box where the federal government is dictating where dollars can go, sometimes toward things that they do not necessarily need. That money could be repurposed for something much more useful, but the bureaucrats in Ottawa are prescribing where those dollars should flow, and that makes it much more difficult for them to do their work effectively. That is not to mention the restrictions placed on first nations police officers in terms of the roles, responsibilities and authorities they have.

Whenever we see these issues, it does not really seem to matter what the topic is. The government's plan is to throw money at it, to create a bureaucracy, to create more jobs in the government service in Ottawa and to walk away. We have seen that in a lot of cases, even from members of the Liberal government today, speaking in the House and talking about how much money they have spent, as if that is their measure of success: “We spent this much money, so look at us; we are doing great, and we care.” That is nice, but what are those dollars achieving? That is the most important thing, and what we are seeing right now is that the dollars are bloating the government bureaucracy and not getting to the communities and the folks who need it.

Unfortunately, I fear that this legislation will be more of the same, because the Liberal government can agree to modern treaties now. They do not need this extra layer of accountability, as they call it. They do not need this commissioner to do any of that work. They have that authority, and I believe that this is just a distraction from the fact that they have done nothing over the last 10 years.

In extension of that, this is a time when our deficit is soaring. Canadians are struggling. It is certainly not the time for more bureaucracy and more government spending. It is clearly time for action.

On top of that, we already have accountability mechanisms within the government. The Auditor General has completed nearly two dozen reports since 2005. The auditor does this important work, holding the government accountable and shining lights on the issues that exist and the gaps that exist, but I cannot think of a time that the Liberals have actually accepted a report and put it into action. Report after report is getting put up on the shelf and collecting dust. We have the Auditor General doing this work already.

We also have additional federal offices that were created to work on land claim implementation issues, like the modern treaty implementation office, the assessment of modern treaties implications office, the deputy minister oversight committee and the reconciliation secretariat. There are many mechanisms, offices and bureaucrats in place to hold this government to account. Creating one more and expecting that it is the one that the government is finally going to listen to does not give me a lot of hope, and I can assure members that when I talk to the first nations leaders across northwestern Ontario, no one is saying that the answer to their problems and the concerns they are facing is going to be more bureaucrats in Ottawa.

In conclusion, we do not need more bureaucracy and deficit spending from the Liberals. I suggest, if this Liberal government wanted to honour its commitments and be accountable, it should actually consider doing the jobs it can do right now and that it has the power to do. Another officer highlighting what the Liberals are doing wrong would not compel them to act. Only they have the power to act, and first nations across the country and indigenous communities across the country are hoping to see that action from the government right now.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Mr. Speaker, I sit with my colleague on the INAN committee and appreciate his views and questions.

The member talked a bit about some of the rights that the previous Conservative government promoted, but he did not once mention the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which Stephen Harper and Conservatives voted against at the United Nations, whereas we as a federal government implemented it, turned it into action and ensured that we followed up with the implementation of UNDRIP.

I know the member just went through training yesterday with the KAIROS blanket exercise, as did I, and we heard from youth in his riding. I wonder if he can share a bit of what he heard from the youth and what he learned during that KAIROS blanket exercise that can help us with the debate we are currently having.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate working with the member opposite as well at committee. We have done some great work together. Of course, we do not agree on everything, as everyone will know, but I appreciate the opportunity to work with him.

Yes, it was great to have the blanket exercise yesterday, at which there were youth from the Mishkeegogamang First Nation in my riding, a community I have had the opportunity to visit quite often. It was great to hear their perspective on issues that they want addressed, from education to supports for mental health and addictions. It was an incredible opportunity to hear first-hand the concerns they are facing. I appreciated the opportunity, as did the committee, to have that local context as well and to share a piece of my riding with the rest of the members.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Conservatives often talk about accountability, but only when it suits them, it seems. For them, reconciliation seems to be nothing more than a slogan, used only when it suits their vision.

They are telling us that Bill C-10 creates too much bureaucracy. Real bureaucracy is when the federal government announces, promises and repeats things without ever delivering results. That is real bureaucracy.

We understand that the bill is not perfect. We would like the commissioner to have more power to enforce. People have been calling for this for the past 20 years, even when the Conservatives were in power under Stephen Harper.

Will my colleague support Bill C-10 today, or will he once again turn a blind eye, claiming that this involves too much bureaucracy and that, ultimately, it does not suit their interests?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Mr. Speaker, very clearly, as I said in my remarks, what Parliament and, I suggest, the government need to do is move forward on modern treaties, first nations policing, clean drinking water and infrastructure. All of these issues help support self-determination and self-government. We do not need more bureaucrats, departments and offices to tell the government to do that. We have an Auditor General who has done great work holding the government to account. I hope the government listens to all of the reports and recommendations and puts them into action.

[Kurt Holman, Conservative, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as repeated throughout the day by my colleagues, Conservatives support modern treaties. There are concerns that with Bill C-10, the establishment of an independent commissioner and office would create additional government bureaucracy.

I would ask my colleague from Kenora—Kiiwetinoong to please expand on whether the commissioner would duplicate the work of the Auditor General.