Afghanistan Committee on Dec. 13th, 2021

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

No, I had another point to make after—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

After Madam Kwan...? Okay.

I will give the floor to Madam Kwan on her motion.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to move a new motion. It really mimics the wording of this last one that we just voted on. The motion would read as follows:

That, pursuant to the order of the House adopted on December 8, 2021, the committee assess the immigration measures to be put in place by Canada to bring relief to the Afghan people; that the Committee invite groups of veterans involved in the repatriation of Afghan interpreters and NGOs working in Afghanistan and family members; to do so, that the Committee hold a minimum of four meetings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Madam Kwan.

I would like to ask you, just as a friendly thing, if you would like to distribute this motion and bring it to the next meeting, or if you—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

No. I'd like for us to debate this motion and vote on it today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Okay. Thank you.

I will go to Madam Zahid and then Mr. Sidhu.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Can we have the motion in both languages? Perhaps the clerk can email it to us. If Ms. Kwan has the motion written in both languages, perhaps it can be distributed to all the members so that we can have a look.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Honourable Mr. Chong, I have Mr. Sidhu before you, but I would skip this and give you an opportunity to speak.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

While the motion's being distributed, I'm a little concerned about adopting this motion, not so much because of the substance of it but rather because we just adopted a motion setting aside four meetings for the committee to call witnesses—that will take two weeks—and then, if we adopt this motion, that will take another two weeks. It will be four weeks before we're able to hear from departmental officials and ministers. I think that we should be hearing from ministers and departmental officials earlier than that.

I point to the terms of the order from the House. In paragraph (k), it says clearly that a whole range of ministers and other senior officials are to be invited to appear, so I think it's really important that you, Mr. Chair, ensure that the clerk invite those witnesses and that those witnesses appear in front of this committee. They're not witnesses, technically, but those ministers should be invited to appear in front of the committee before too long.

Obviously, ministers have busy schedules, and they may not be able to make an appearance in the first two weeks or so that the committee begins its proceedings at the end of January, but I certainly expect that they would appear in front of this committee by mid to late February. In that context, I'm a little concerned about the motion in that we might be pushing these appearances off until March or even April, which, in my view, is far too late, considering that this committee is to report back to the House of Commons by the end of May or early June.

If we are to adopt Madam Kwan's motion, I would hope that you, Mr. Chair, would ensure that the committee invite those individuals in paragraph (k) before too long, so that we don't have to wait until March before we hear from ministers and other departmental officials.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

I will go to Mr. Sidhu and then Madam Kwan.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

My colleague, Ms. Zahid, already made my point, so I'm okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Madam Kwan, do you want to say the final words? It's going to be 8:30, so if you want to get this motion finalized, I would like you to make the final remarks. Then we can take a vote on this one.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I just want to be clear. This motion is not meant to sidestep or to usurp the opportunity to invite ministers and officials to this committee. I guess maybe this committee operates a little bit differently than the other committees that I normally sit on, because we would move a bunch of things and then we would have a subcommittee to organize the dates we can bring witnesses forward, and so on and so forth.

This is not meant to sidestep that. I do think, though, that we should hear from officials and ministers, absolutely. The urgency of the situation, in my mind and for New Democrats, is that, yes, we need to get humanitarian aid to the people in Afghanistan, but we also need to bring people to safety. Those two things are of the utmost urgency in my mind. That's the reason I moved my motion. I want to make sure that this committee looks into immigration measures in order to bring people to safety.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I just want to make sure that every member realizes that there's only one meeting a week. There are not two meetings a week as is usual. We don't have much time, so, Mr. Chong, I agree with you. I think we have to bring in all those witnesses, but if we keep on adding, we're not going to get anywhere.

Do you support this motion now or do you want...?

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I'm prepared to support it under the understanding—even in light of the one meeting a week—that ministers and departmental officials will be invited to appear, not after these witnesses concerning humanitarian assistance and concerning immigration measures are invited to appear, but some time during those other scheduled periods.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Do you want to amend the motion, then?

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

No, I don't, because the House motion is the House motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

A House motion takes precedence.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I'm asking you as chair to give us assurances that if this current motion is adopted, that motion, along with the previous motion adopted, doesn't mean that we're not inviting ministers and departmental officials to appear at the very end of the eight meetings that we are holding on these two particular issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I have Madam Zahid and then Madam Damoff.

Please go ahead.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I think we are already at 8:30 p.m. and we have decided. We have passed one motion and we will have four meetings on that, so maybe Ms. Kwan can bring that motion to the next meeting, because we need to look into the language also.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Sure.

Madam Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I was just going to say that the motion actually says that the witnesses Mr. Chong mentioned would appear from time to time as the committee sees fit. I'm in complete agreement with the motion that we passed, and I think that's the motion the committee has passed at this point. Then we can work on a work plan moving forward. I too would like to see Ms. Kwan's motion in writing before I vote on it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Kwan, do you—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I've just sent the motion to the clerk.