Afghanistan Committee on Feb. 7th, 2022

[Ali Mirzad]

No.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Moving on, again talking about the backlogs that we see, you raised the point—and that's something I hear in my office all the time as well—that there are refugees who are stuck in other countries right now, and their status is running out in those countries. They then have to go back into the hands of the Taliban, because they're sitting there waiting. We heard about the case of the 10-year-old girl who was killed just waiting. They had to wait because of the backlog that this Canadian government has caused on the immigration system, this Liberal-made backlog.

Can you speak a bit further to that?

[Ali Mirzad]

I will defer to my colleague, Professor Maley, who can better answer that question, if you wouldn't mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Sure, go ahead.

[Dr. William Maley, Emeritus Professor, Australian National University, and Representative, Canadian Hazara Humanitarian Services]

Thank you.

The management of immigration and refugee crises has been a challenge for bureaucracies worldwide for a very long period of time, but the lesson of history is that it is exceedingly dangerous to allow an increase of bureaucratic requirements to interfere with emergency rescue when circumstances dictate that it's required.

The classic example was in 1939, when a vessel called the St. Louis, containing over 800 people of Jewish background, set out for North America in the hope of escaping from the tyranny in Nazi Germany. They were turned away from Miami because they didn't fit within a quota system that had been put in place by a 1924 piece of legislation. They were then returned to Europe, disembarked in the Low Countries, and over a quarter of them were then killed in the Holocaust.

The lesson that flows from that is that bureaucracy can be life-threatening in these sorts of circumstances. It often takes strong leadership within an individual state to recognize the need to cut through red tape expeditiously so that circumstances that are quite beyond the mindsets of those who are operating in normal circumstances don't end up having lethal consequences.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you for that.

Look, some of the stuff we're hearing about—forced marriages, forced conversions and rapes that are happening to the young women there—was happening pre-2021. I remember this was happening even in 2015. The Sikh, the Hazara and the Hindu communities were all facing this persecution.

Ms. Oates, prior to August 2021, were you hearing any of these things, and did your organization ever reach out to the Liberal government to give them a heads-up?

[Dr. Lauryn Oates]

Yes, these certainly existed prior to 2021. In a sense, pluralism is not well protected in Afghanistan, and that was the case under the previous government as well. That's very well documented by organizations like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. We have brought these human rights violations, and the issues faced by minorities in particular, to the attention of this government and previous governments over the years, basically for as long as we've existed.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I'll keep this—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Hallan, you only have five to 10 seconds. You're already out of time.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I'll just keep it open.

The speeding up of the processing is not going to happen. What can this government do?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ms. Oates, I have to go to the next person—

[Dr. Lauryn Oates]

We've seen the bureaucratic challenges as well, up close and personal. My own position is that the main measure, above any others—security, privacy of information, etc.—has to be human life. We have to find ways to get people out, and our government institutions have to find ways to operate as if it is an emergency. This is not business as normal; it's an emergency, and we should know that because of the historical examples like the one Dr. Maley raised.

We have to think completely differently from the way we are right now, find multiple avenues and accept some level of risk in trying a few things that we've never done before that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Ms. Oates. I have to cut you off now.

I will go to our honourable member Mrs. Zahid, please.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for appearing before the committee today.

I would like to focus my questioning on the situation of women and girls in Afghanistan, because they are clearly the most vulnerable with the return of the Taliban. Particularly, I'm concerned about the households with no male members, which can make it difficult or impossible for that household to access the humanitarian aid needed for their survival.

I will ask Ms. Nasiri to go first, and then Ms. Oates. Can you both speak to the situation of women and girls, especially the situation of those households without males, please? What specific recommendations do you have for Canada to help those young girls and women?

[Khalidha Nasiri]

Thank you to the honourable member for the question.

As you said, women and girls are at especially heightened risk as a result of the Taliban takeover, and the households without male guardians are even more so. As we've seen, the Taliban have imposed strict measures in certain provinces and areas. Women cannot travel or go out without a male companion, for example, or a woman cannot go to school or to a university class taught by a male professor. These are valid reports and concerns that we're seeing.

In terms of what the Canadian government can do, the first thing is to increase investment in humanitarian aid groups that are focused on helping women and girls. In this crisis, as I mentioned, there are predictions that up to 97% of Afghanistan will be in poverty by mid-2022, so in that situation, we have to prioritize the people most at risk. Groups that prioritize women and girls should be prioritized in that funding.

The second and final thing I will say is that in negotiations or in diplomatic interactions or engagements with the Taliban, we need to use every opportunity we get to bring up things that are happening to women, such as the disappearances of women and girls we've recently heard about, and the Taliban being surprised that the international community is holding them to that. That pressure does work, and it did result in changes recently where we've seen the Taliban allow women to return to university in some provinces.

So, essentially, it's funding and diplomacy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Dr. Oates, go ahead, please.

[Dr. Lauryn Oates]

I would add that it's important to try the strategy of combining humanitarian and development assistance. There's obviously a need for emergency assistance, like food aid, at a time when people are on the brink of starvation, but also for the the kind of assistance that can transform people's situations: access to schools, to university, to work. Afghans need jobs right now; they need incomes, as unemployment rates have skyrocketed. People can work remotely, so there are creative options out there.

We need Canadian legislation to enable these forms of assistance, rather than restrict them, and to make sure that measures intended not to empower the Taliban don't victimize ordinary people who are trying to stay alive. In any case, it's too late; the Taliban are empowered.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

For both of you, do you have any estimate of the number of women-headed households in Afghanistan?

[Dr. Lauryn Oates]

I don't have recent data. I don't think there is recent data, but there's probably some older data that can be extrapolated from. I can look that up and get it to you.

I would just say it's very high and it has always been high. Due to the previous chapters of war in the country, there's been an unusually high number of women-headed households compared to other countries.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

If we could get that, that would be good.

While Canada has made a strong commitment on resettlement, we know that resettlements alone cannot solve this crisis. How can we ensure that Afghans displaced in the country and those who have fled to neighbouring countries, especially women, are cared for? How can we work to develop the conditions to allow them to return safely to Afghanistan?

I will ask Ms. Nasiri to comment on that, and then Ms. Oates.

[Khalidha Nasiri]

I think the big issue here is preventing the crisis in Afghanistan from getting worse, to the point where there is a need for managing the increased number of Afghans who will inevitably exit if the crisis gets worse. It's the things that we're calling for, such as removing barriers for humanitarian aid groups to get funding and goods and services to the people of Afghanistan. If Afghans feel like they're receiving the services they need—like health care, food and shelter—then this incentivizes them from leaving their country. Of course, no one wants to leave unless they have to. Canada can play a major role there.

With resettlement, Canada has made commitments but so far has fallen short of upholding them. Resettlement is part of a temporary solution for those who aren't able to wait for the international community to respond.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mrs. Zahid. Your time is up now.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Okay, thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Now I will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, and then Ms. Kwan, for six minutes each, please.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First and foremost, I want to thank all of the witnesses here with us tonight on this important study, which we all care about.

Mr. Mirzad, thank you for coming back to testify before the committee. I recall that you testified in June 2021 before the Subcommittee on International Human Rights. I was vice-chair at the time. Your testimony made an impression on me. One sentence in particular struck me, and that was when you stated that “the life of a Hazara in Afghanistan is that of a death row inmate living on borrowed time, awaiting an impending execution”.

That statement is even more true today. Moreover, it now describes the lives of the majority of Afghans, both Hazara and non-Hazara, who are fleeing the country.

Do these individuals turn to organizations like yours when they cross the border and seek refuge elsewhere?