Afghanistan Committee on Feb. 7th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Mr. Fontaine.

[Manuel Fontaine]

I'm sorry; I honestly don't know. I'm not in charge of our relationship with Canada and the regular contact with them. I wouldn't be able to tell you that.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Fontaine. Could you follow up with the committee to get that information and send it back to the committee, please?

[Manuel Fontaine]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Ms. Grantham.

[Barbara Grantham]

On behalf of CARE Canada, I can inform this committee that we have met with Minister Sajjan as part of larger round tables within the family of organizations in the broader international NGO ecosystem in Canada. We've met with him, I believe, three times on issues that have ranged from the broad international humanitarian imperative to Afghanistan specifically, the issue of sexual and reproductive rights, and [Technical difficulty—Editor]. They've been issue-specific or geography-specific in a broader round table with a number of organizations.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

When was that?

[Barbara Grantham]

The most recent one was last week. There have probably been three or four since the beginning of January.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

That's great.

I know I only have about a minute and a half left. As I mentioned, I spent a year and a bit of my life in Afghanistan. I know how difficult it is to work with or deal with the Taliban.

To build upon what Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and Ms. Kwan brought forward, it's very difficult to ensure that this aid is getting there. If I understand correctly, I think part of the challenge is the anti-terror laws that the government has failed to take any action on in a timely manner, much like what we saw leading up to last summer in the Taliban takeover. I'm just trying to understand why they're failing to do this, but at the same time, how can your NGOs ensure that the money, once it could flow again, is going to get to those minorities—girls in particular, whom the Taliban have no time for, and the other minority groups in Afghanistan?

[Barbara Grantham]

As I said, we have, in the broader confederation of CARE, I believe, six or eight members within the CARE confederation that all support a variety of programs across Afghanistan. We have long-established relationships with various departments that deliver services across the country, along with literally dozens of women's, youth's and girls' rights organizations across the country. The full, complete and appropriate accounting and auditing of all those finances over the years has frankly not been in any way brought into question over time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Ruff.

Now we'll go to Mr. Baker. After Mr. Baker, we'll go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Mr. Baker, you have five minutes, please.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to all our witnesses for being here and for the incredible work that you do on the ground.

I'd like to start on the issue of the anti-terror legislation that you raised, Ms. Grantham, and that others have spoken about. My understanding is that this is being treated urgently. My understanding of the situation—Ms. Grantham, please correct me if this is incorrect—is that this Canadian anti-terror legislation you're talking about was brought in by the prior government at the time under Prime Minister Stephen Harper and that it is unique in the international context.

That is my understanding of the situation, that it is being treated urgently but also that the legislation is unique and that the challenges are difficult to overcome. Is that correct? Am I right in understanding that?

[Barbara Grantham]

I will be honest with you; the finer points of the legislation are beyond my remit for this evening.

What I can say is that Canada's legislation is unique relative to our OECD peers, if I can put it that way—in that, I would include the U.S., the EU, Australia, and the U.K.—in that we don't provide an explicit provision within the legislation for humanitarian exemptions. We do not provide an explicit override of some kind, provision or capability within the legislation. We're trying to do that in a post-legislative environment, which is imminently more challenging.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Fair enough. I'm not professing to be an expert on it, but it sounds like we need a legislative fix to fix a legislation that doesn't permit you to do your work.

I'd like to ask a question about how your non-Canadians partners operate. Do you know how your non-Canadian partners operate to ensure that funds go where they're supposed to go, to the women and girls, and not to the Taliban, for example, or other places they shouldn't go?

[Barbara Grantham]

CARE has been in Afghanistan since 1961. I believe we are the longest-serving or certainly one of the longest-serving international NGOs working in the country. We have deep historical trusted relationships with partners and leaders—local and provincial leaders and supporters all over the country—of many years' standing. With that, we also have extensive monitoring systems, which we've had in place, in many cases, for 20, 50 or 60 years.

As I mentioned at the end of my prepared remarks, we've recently established the Afghan women advisory group, which is advising our humanitarian country team's engagement with the Taliban, so we have an interlocutor, if you like, between ourselves as civil society organizations and the Taliban to ensure that the intent of what we're there to achieve and the monitoring systems in place are working to our satisfaction and in a way that fulfills the commitments we have made to the people of Afghanistan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Baker, you have 30 seconds.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Ms. Grantham, I've taken your point about the importance of local women-based NGOs. Many years ago, I was a volunteer in Rwanda, working with women social entrepreneurs and NGOs. I completely appreciate the importance of what you're saying there. I just wanted to say that.

Lastly, if this legislative challenge was overcome, where would you dedicate your resources? Where would your help go first?

[Barbara Grantham]

Our help would go first to the immediate health services, the mobile health services, and the services that women and girls need from the perspective of safety: first and foremost, their physical and emotional safety; second, their health; and third, their ability to earn a livelihood, in that order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Even though time is up, I want to be fair and equitable, so I'll give Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe, and then Ms. Kwan, two and a half minutes to finish off the round.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, you have two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to immediately thank witnesses for taking part in tonight's meeting. This study is extremely important. I'm very sorry that they had to deal with the political attacks between Conservatives and Liberals. They will not have to go through that with me because I'm going to get right to the point. I want to clearly understand the reality that witnesses are experiencing on the ground, and I want that in the committee's report.

According to some reports, up to last year, at least 36 humanitarian workers had been killed, while 111 had been injured and 59 had been abducted.

Have these numbers remained constant or has the work become more dangerous since August? This is an open question to all witnesses.

[Manuel Fontaine]

I can answer very quickly that since August we've had better access to Afghan territory and have been able to circulate more easily around the country. At least that's the case for U.N. aid workers, but I believe it's the same for most NGOs. Well, my colleagues can confirm that. However, we don't think it will last. In any case, it really gave us a sense of just how much humanitarian aid is needed on the ground and showed us that we now need to move quickly.

So we've seen some improvement, in my opinion, but the situation could deteriorate quickly.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Do Doctors Without Borders and CARE Canada concur?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, your time is up.

Mr. Nickerson, do you want to say something?

[Martine Flokstra]

I would like to take this one.

The last time we lost a lot of colleagues in Afghanistan was when the Kunduz hospital was bombarded in an aerial bombardment by the U.S. Army. That was the last time that we really had a major loss. Of course, there was also an attack on the Dasht-e-Barchi maternity ward one and a half years ago.

Currently the situation is very fluid, but as we said in our presentation, the security situation is such that we can continue our activities at times more easily than before the transition of power.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ms. Kwan, go ahead, please.