Afghanistan Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Kaylee Perez]

Thank you, Member Kwan.

Our association does not have an explicit position on that. What I would share is that we are concerned about the high inventory and the potential that a lifted cap could raise on processing in an equitable way for all refugees.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Maybe I can go to Wendy very quickly on that question. I do want to come back to address the processing delay and the lack of resources.

[Dr. Wendy Cukier]

Our position would be raise the cap. If the SAHs are concerned—and we understand their concerns—about equity and so on, lift the cap for a group of five, make it easier for a group of five to do the sponsorship.

I'll talk more about how different things are now than they were before, but suffice it to say that you now need to come up with $100,000 up front to support families with many of the SAHs, which is not reasonable or sustainable. There are other models that have worked well in the past and will continue to work.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

On the issue around refugee determination, Wendy, you suggested that what the government should do—which is what the NDP has been calling for for a very long time—is lift the requirement for refugee determination for groups of five. It makes no sense to have that requirement there, especially now in the face of what's going on in Afghanistan. Should the government lift that refugee determination requirement similar to what they have done with Syrian refugees?

[Dr. Wendy Cukier]

I believe so, and I believe that we can still institute security and health checks to keep people safe.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

On the question around resources, there's no question that there's a lack of resources for processing the application. The minister indicated at the immigration committee that it takes on average three years for privately sponsored refugees to make their way to Canada. They were contemplating that for the Ukraine situation, and if it's going to take three years, it's too long. You're right that there are too many people who are stuck in the backlog.

What should the government do by way of resourcing this properly so that we can get in the people who have been waiting and backlogged in the queue from other countries, as well as the people who are now in need of refugee status? Should they apply the same immigration measures they have made available to Ukraine so that people can come with a temporary residence permit and then make the application for refugee status here in Canada, or even extend that to privately sponsored opportunities?

[Dr. Wendy Cukier]

There are innovative approaches that governments have used in the past. There were 25,000 Syrian refugees who came in four months because the Prime Minister and the minister made a commitment and pulled out the stops. Whether you do it in the way they're doing it with Ukrainians or whether we do it the way we did it with Syrians, it's possible, but it does require resources and, more importantly, it requires shared political will. This can't be a partisan issue; this has to be a Canadian project.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I would agree that there needs to be innovation. Mind you, with the Syrian refugee initiative, the government didn't quite do it in four months, but I get your point. What you're saying is that it can be done much better than what is being done now, and what it needs is collaboration from all the parties and NGOs on the ground to get this work done. If the government's willing to lift the cap and make that opportunity available, I would absolutely agree with that.

I want to come back to the backlogs because part of the problem is this: The government announced the process for Afghans; however, they did not put additional resources into IRCC. Not only are people in other countries with refugee status backlogged, all immigration streams have been backlogged and there's complete chaos. That is the situation right now.

The government says it has put in additional resources, but these are not enough to deal with what we are dealing with right now. From that perspective, should there be a dedicated specific response and resources, both in financial resources as well as immigration levels numbers, to address the issue? Could I get a quick answer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madame Kwan, I'm sorry, but we're 30 seconds over.

Go ahead quickly, please.

[Dr. Wendy Cukier]

Yes, and business process re-engineering is essential. Doing things the way we've always done them and throwing money at them is, in my view, not efficient.

[Kaylee Perez]

Yes to increasing the immigration levels. That is crucial to having resources dedicated to process the existing inventory. Resources are needed at IRCC to hire staff to process cases and also for settlement-providing organizations to be able to make sure they are intentionally connecting with privately sponsored refugees and sponsors and also funding the infrastructure of sponsorship agreement holders to be able to say yes to working with new and additional sponsors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to go to Mr. Ruff for two minutes.

Please, go ahead.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

My first question is for Maria.

I just want to thank you for your inspiration and leadership. Having spent time in Afghanistan, I understand the challenges and lack of equality. It takes strong women leaders like you to make the case. That's what we need to help inspire and help change the culture, because ultimately I think changes are needed in Afghanistan.

In my opinion, we as a country failed to get enough Afghans out before the fall of Kabul into the Taliban's hands. I want you to just emphasize how important it is for us to get more of those people out and for us to lift these barriers to getting those Afghans, particularly young girls, out of the country, who are being targeted because of the dire situation.

[Maria Toorpakai Wazir]

Thank you, sir.

I would say that Afghanistan has been at war for decades. These people have lived in this kind of violent situation, and aggressive behaviour has become their daily routine. Of course, people were very scared when the Taliban took over, because they remember the history. When they were jamming all the airports, I saw all men and I did post about that. I did send a message: Women are the ones who suffered the most in these regions, and you are leaving the women there in the houses, but you are the ones who are fleeing. It was all men who were fleeing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ms. Wazir—

[Maria Toorpakai Wazir]

We need to help these women and these girls. But, again I would say that we need to make sure that we find the people from among them. So I make this offer to the Canadian government: I'm here. I can play a role as mediator between the Taliban, my people, and my region. I speak the language. I speak English and I really care about the humanity of these people. I think I can make a difference. I can talk to them. They would understand—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Ms. Wazir.

[Maria Toorpakai Wazir]

—and we are family.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you kindly.

Now I'm going to go to Ms. Zahid for two minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to all three witnesses for appearing before the committee and talking about the issues that matter to the Afghans. I have only two minutes, so I'll be very quick.

My first question is for Ms. Wazir. I want to thank you for your inspiring work with women and girls in Afghanistan as you seek to empower through the power of sports.

You mentioned that the young girls and women who have fled Afghanistan and who are in Pakistan are facing adverse conditions. What do you think the Canadian government can do to support them so that they can get the education they need, including the girls who have fled Afghanistan and those girls who are in Afghanistan, and that some daily activities like sports can be part of their activities?

What would you like to comment?

[Maria Toorpakai Wazir]

One of my dream projects is a sports centre that we have been working on. We have designed it in a way that will give them opportunities. We want to bring those from the tribal areas. It will be an all-women's sports school, which is a unique idea in this region. People trust me and my family now. Also, this will be all girls and women, so people will be comfortable. Culturally, it is appropriate.

I go into these regions, into this area. I was going to visit Kabul recently, but I just delayed it. I'm telling you that I am going to these regions. I do talk to the people, and I know that they want schools and sports. I can arrange all the workshops for them.

The facility that I want to build will give them all an opportunity. I want to bring those who have a lot of support from the western.... We have [Technical difficulty—Editor] then to feel that these people are different [Technical difficulty—Editor]. The fear is that because people are so apart from each other. That's why people from the west are scared. I want to bring them together, have them in the camps together and teach each other. I think then this fear will go away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Ms. Wazir.

Thank you, Ms. Zahid, for the two minutes.

Now I will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for a minute or a minute and a half—whatever.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay.

I'll be as quick as possible.

I want to congratulate you, dear witnesses. You have been fantastic. I agree with you, there's no question that this should not be a partisan issue. The committee has to produce a report that will be very important going forward.

Now, since I don't have much time, I'd like to ask Dr. Cukier and Ms. Perez the next question. I'd like both of you to have time to answer.

What do you think the most important recommendation of this committee should be?

[Dr. Wendy Cukier]

Prima facie designation of Afghans as refugees....

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Dr. Cukier.

Ms. Perez, what do you think?