Afghanistan Committee on May 1st, 2008

[Kai Eide]

Thank you very much, but....

I am in the early days of this, and in the early days also of discussing how we can put that into place. We certainly say to the Afghans, yes, there are more resources required, and a better use of resources is required, but there is another side to that; it has to do with accountability and the fight against corruption. These two go hand in hand. As we demonstrate our commitment to them, we would like to see them demonstrate their commitment to us.

This is a constant discussion. I hope that we will soon see progress that will reassure you and other donors that we're heading in the right direction.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

May I use my colleague's remaining time?

You have been given a new mandate by the secretary general. You talk about better coordinating international efforts. Here in this country, we apply the 3D policy approach, that is defence, diplomacy and development. Often we are tempted to add governance to the list.

Mr. Eide, do you get to have your say on defence matters, or is the focus of your mandate strictly development and diplomacy?

[Kai Eide]

My mandate also includes an improved civil-military relationship, and I do take that seriously. Also, since I've spent, altogether, eleven years at NATO, I believe I do have a certain basis for working on these particular issues.

We are also in discussions or have entered into discussions with ISAF in order to see how we can improve civil-military coordination at the central level, at the regional level, and also more locally.

I'd like to say one thing in that respect. Our UN mandate is a UN mandate. It is distinct and very different from the military mandate of ISAF. I will move into closer coordination with the military, but always protecting the integrity of the UN's political mandate. I think that's very important, for the UN to play the role that we have now been given and for which we've been given great support by the Canadian government.

I will do that also for other reasons. We have to demonstrate that what I would like to call our “project Afghanistan” in support of the people of that country is not, first of all, a security or military project. It's a political project where the military, development, and governance elements have to play together in a better way.

I have another reason for insisting on that distinct mandate, and that is our relationship to the development agencies and the humanitarian community—NGOs, etc. They must feel confident that the UN, with which they work, has that independent mandate and protects its integrity.

Let me also say that if we are to, at one stage, play a role in the political process, I do want to make sure that all our interlocutors know who we are. We are the United Nations. We are the representatives of the global community, not of any region or organization or any specific group of countries.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

Thank you very much, Mr. Eide.

Ms. Black.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you very much.

Welcome to our committee. It's a pleasure to have you here.

In my party we have been very supportive of the UN taking a greater role in Afghanistan, so we're pleased to have you there. We believe it's the appropriate organization to lead the efforts in Afghanistan.

I want to congratulate you on your appointment. It is a huge challenge that you've undertaken, and certainly all of us here wish you well in it.

With UNAMA, I think you have about 1,300 people working with you now in Afghanistan, and about 1,000 of those are local Afghans. I understand there are about 40,000 military troops from different countries in Afghanistan. Are my numbers correct?

[Kai Eide]

Even more.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Are you looking to expand the number of people who work under the UNAMA banner?

[Kai Eide]

Yes. For the UN to be able to play the role that many countries want us to play, I believe we need greater resources. We need greater financial resources, and we need more manpower to be able to do the job in Kabul, but also to be able to do our job in the regions and expand the number of offices that we have in provinces.

We do have a plan on how to go about that, and I hope to be able to start implementing it.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Perhaps you could share that with the committee at a later date, when you have that plan in place.

[Kai Eide]

I'm glad that you said “at a later date”.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I appreciate that. We understand that you have been there a very short time.

[Kai Eide]

I can assure you that we need resources, but I'm pleased to see that your country, the one I originate from, and many others believe that the United Nations is the only legitimate organization to play that coordinating role in Afghanistan. I think there is today broad support for that kind of approach.

[Dawn Black, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I agree with you.

There is a story in today's Associated Press. I don't know if you had a chance to see it. It talks about the United States mulling over military control in southern Afghanistan. It says that military planners in the U.S. are concerned that the rotations that the other countries take into the south are not long enough. There has been a lot of speculation and there have been a lot of articles in the press saying that the U.S. would prefer a more aggressive approach by Canadian, Dutch, and British troops in southern Afghanistan.

I know you have just returned from Washington, and I'm wondering whether you had discussions about these media reports and reports of American military officers saying that they may wish to take over control of the military operations in the south of Afghanistan. Is that something you discussed at all with Washington or something you heard about while you were there?

[Kai Eide]

This was not a discussion during my meetings with the President, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, or other ministers. I've also read the media reports.

Since I have been involved in the development of ISAF from a previous capacity, I would like to underline one thing. It's essential to us all—I think it's essential to you—that this operation has its basis in the United Nations mandate. It must remain that way. And it will remain that way. In addition to that, ISAF bases its operations on an operational plan that has been adopted by the NATO Council with the approval of all countries. I think that is the basis on which we proceed.

Also, Canada deserves great praise for all the efforts it has undertaken in so many ways. I just saw the new allocation of resources with regard to the food crisis that Afghanistan is facing. I think the Afghan people are grateful for what you're doing in order to bring their country forward. It's hard, and it has costs, but it is important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

Thank you very much, Mr. Eide.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming, sir.

With respect to Afghanistan, in the broad sense our mission will be successful, I think, when Afghanistan is secure, prosperous, and stable. That will always be a relative assessment compared to countries like Canada and Norway.

You talked about the effectiveness of aid, in particular the Canadian example. Is it fair to say that the more effective the aid is, the more effectively we can get at the locals to improve governance, and the more outreach we can do to the Taliban who may not be hard-core Taliban but maybe Taliban by convenience?

The south is a difficult environment for this to take place; it's probably the most difficult in the country. How do you see the UN increasing its presence in the south to help the Afghans and the rest of the folks there deliver the aid more effectively, which leads to better local governance, which leads to more reconciliation?

[Kai Eide]

We already have offices in the south; Kandahar is where we are strongly represented. When we look at where we want to be represented in the future, as I see it now, that certainly will include an expansion in the south. We have to not only expand in the south, but we have to look very carefully at how we can be most useful in the outreach context, for instance, together with our other organizations, development agencies, NGOs, and not least the Afghan government.

I mentioned the establishment of this new directorate, whose intention and task is to improve the governance at various levels and bring modern and traditional structures together to enable the Afghan government to make decisions and priorities based on the needs on the ground. I see it as one of our tasks to try to reinforce and complement that effort.

You mentioned aid effectiveness. Much has been done, and we can see visible results in many, many places in the country. Nevertheless, there's no doubt that there is a duplication of effort. That has to be avoided; we have to stop it.

There is also a tendency to spend too much money inside the donor country and not inside the receiving country. That also has a very negative effect of not building Afghan capacity as soon as we can. Therefore, I think we are conducting capacity substitution instead of capacity building. That is an attitude we have to get away from, and it will require all of us to look very carefully at how we spend. But I also do see a trend in the right direction over the last few weeks. I look forward to seeing that materialize.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mange Takk.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Keddy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

You have time for one question--about a minute and half.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank our witness.

You moved directly to where I was headed, to capacity-building and how capacity-building leads to prosperity. In your opening remarks you talked about Afghanistan being primarily an agrarian society that has a definite need to modernize. And of course it needs irrigation. We all understand that.

Could you branch out on that a little more? It's one thing to modernize agriculture, but it's another if you simply have a couple of large farms and you don't have independence of that small agrarian movement, or the individual. We may look at it as primitive, but the other possibility is manufacturing, even on a small scale. What level are we at there?

[Kai Eide]

I'm not able after such a short time—after all, 15 working days on the ground, plus all the travelling—to express myself on the agriculture manufacturing industry in Afghanistan.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

I appreciate that.

[Kai Eide]

What I see as most important is to enable the Afghan people to feed themselves. We see now what is happening as part of a more global food shortage and food problems. The Afghan people are hit hard by that.

I think we have to be able to develop agriculture in such a way that they can first of all feed themselves, and then also create the basis for industries emanating from that. Some of this is going to take time, but some of it does not need to take all that long. And I think this is something Afghan authorities see, that they do have to develop their agriculture sector.

Let me just mention that there are other elements also, resources inside Afghanistan that they can make better use of and that they can develop. Within the mining industry there are resources. There are also resources within oil and gas, which can at least satisfy a significant portion of their own domestic requirements. That will also take time, but there are efforts under way, for instance, to adopt a new hydrocarbon law and regulations. These will enable them to have a tender round with regard to gas fields and an oil field up in the north. There are processes under way, but I point out the agriculture because it is really at the base of where we are today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

Very good.

Mr. Eide, I realize you have a very busy schedule, and I think it makes us even more appreciative that you took time out of your schedule to meet with us today. I and my fellow committee members appreciate your having shared your views with us. We wish you all the best in the future of your appointment. And because we'll be focusing on the Canadian mission in Afghanistan, I think it's all of our hopes that we'll have the chance to meet again.

Thank you very much.

[Kai Eide]

Thank you very much, and thank you for the support Canada is giving.