Afghanistan Committee on June 11th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

Order. The meeting is convened.

I'd like to welcome you, colleagues, Mr. Mulroney, and our viewing audience to the seventh meeting of the Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan.

Tonight David Mulroney is in front of us once again. For the viewing audience, Mr. Mulroney is the deputy minister responsible for the Afghanistan Task Force. He's in front of us tonight to discuss the first report by the cabinet committee on Afghanistan. If my colleagues will remember well, the cabinet committee was founded in February 2008. It basically resulted from a recommendation from the Manley panel.

Just yesterday they released their very first quarterly report, entitled Canada's Engagement in Afghanistan: Setting a Course to 2011. Today we have Mr. Mulroney to basically discuss the report with us. Of course, my colleagues from the various political parties will have the opportunity to ask him questions on that report.

Mr. Mulroney, thank you for making yourself available to us. Without any further ado, I will turn the microphone over to you.

[David Mulroney, Deputy Minister, Afghanistan Task Force, Privy Council Office]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, it's a real pleasure to be back and to have the opportunity to provide you with an update and to answer any questions you might have about the report that was tabled yesterday.

I am sure that you are aware that the first report to Parliament on Canada's engagement in Afghanistan, entitled "Setting a course to 2011" was tabled yesterday in the House of Commons.

The report highlights the transformation of Canada's engagement in Afghanistan, and sets clear priorities and realistic goals for the period from 2008 to 2011. Our ultimate goal remains the same: to leave Afghanistan to Afghans, in a country that is better governed, more peaceful, and more secure.

The report of the expert panel led by Mr. Manley asked the government to prepare a new and more complete strategy commensurate with our resources and leading to concrete results.

The government motion passed in March reflected a number of the report's recommendations.

Since my last appearance, much work has been completed. The government has now identified six targeted priorities for our work in Afghanistan. Four are focused on the Kandahar level, two on the national level. If I may, I will just go through them quickly: first, maintaining a more secure environment and establishing law and order by building the capacity of the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police and by supporting complementary efforts in the area of justice and corrections; second, in Kandahar, providing jobs, education, and essential services like water; third, providing humanitarian assistance to people in need in Kandahar, including refugees; fourth, enhancing Afghan-Pakistan dialogue and border management; fifth, building at the national level the Afghan institutions that are central to our priorities, especially our priorities in Kandahar, and supporting democratic processes like the elections; and finally, contributing to Afghan-led political reconciliation efforts aimed at weakening the insurgency and fostering a sustainable peace.

These priorities significantly increase our focus on Kandahar province, amounting to a shift from 17% of our overall programming previously focused on Kandahar to 50% by next year. Our military and civilian resources will be focused on helping to build a more secure Kandahar that is better governed and that can deliver basic services to its citizens, supported by a more capable national government that can better manage its borders and sustain stability and reconstruction gains over the long term.

Overall, Canada is increasing its ten-year allocation to development and reconstruction in Afghanistan from $1.3 billion to a total of $1.9 billion out to 2011. Three signature projects--the rehabilitation of the Dahla Dam, the building and repair of 50 schools in Kandahar province, and the eradication of polio across Afghanistan--will be visible examples of our continued commitment to the future of Afghanistan. By responding to the most visible and urgent needs of the people of Kandahar and the country at large, Canadian assistance will be solely devoted to improving the lives of Afghans and helping the Government of Afghanistan develop the capacity to govern Afghanistan into the future.

The goals for 2011 set by the government are ambitious and not without risk. It is my belief, however, that these goals are also achievable as long as the Canadian effort remains sharply focused on these six priorities and closely aligned with the efforts of the Government of Afghanistan, taking into account, with our allies, the security situation on the ground.

The report tabled yesterday is the first in a series that will be tabled on a quarterly basis in Parliament, representing our effort to better communicate with Canadians on our mission in Afghanistan and responding directly to the wording of the motion in March.

I welcome your feedback, and I certainly welcome your comments or questions relating to this first report.

Canadians can take pride in the work of our men and women in Afghanistan and the way in which they are improving the lives of the Afghan people.

Thank you very much.

I welcome your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

Thank you very much, Mr. Mulroney, for your opening statement and résumé of the first report of the cabinet committee on Afghanistan.

I'd like to proceed with two rounds of questioning. The first round will be of seven minutes, followed by a second round of five minutes. We have the second hour reserved for committee business.

I will start with Monsieur Dosanjh, for seven minutes.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you.

If I finish before seven minutes is up, I'd like to split my time with my colleague.

The first question I'm going to ask you, you may find inappropriate. We noticed that for the first time in the several years the mission has been ongoing, the father of a young man who was killed--the latest casualty in Afghanistan--has been very critical of the mission. First of all, let me just say that whatever the father said, he had every right to say it. His feelings are legitimate; he has lost a loved one. We sent him into harm's way.

From your knowledge of the mission, and perhaps of the families of those who are serving, do you sense a changing mood among the families and relatives, the extended families of the people who are being sent there? It may be an unfair question, and if it is, don't answer it. It struck me when that happened. If I recall correctly, it's the first time someone has said that.

[David Mulroney]

I really can't speak to the views of family members, other than to say--and I think the Chief of Defence Staff said it best--we can't imagine the anguish a parent feels, and our hearts go out to the people who have experienced that loss.

For those of us who are working on the mission, it brings home in even more stark terms our responsibility to communicate effectively what we're doing and why we're doing it. This is really what we've essentially tried to do in this report and through the series of technical briefings we've done. We understand that we owe it to Canadians to be as rigorous, frank, direct, and honest as possible, and also to continually update and explain what Canada is trying to achieve.

Incidents like the ones we have seen and the one that you referred to only bring home to us the responsibility we have to Canadians.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you. I beg forgiveness if you felt it was inappropriate.

This is my second question. When the resolution in the House was passed, it was understood that over the year or so that was left before the extension would kick in, the focus and the thrust of the mission would change. You've told us what's happening--there are five more schools and whatever else you've told us. Tell us, in layperson's terms for Canadians to understand, how the mission is changing, how the thrust is changing, and how much it has changed. Are we going to be able to accomplish that change successfully?

[David Mulroney]

The core elements of a package, which I honestly believe is transformational, because I've been working on this mission for a long time, are the following.

First is the fact that we've clearly identified six core priorities for Canada. These are the six things we're going to focus on. These will inform our project work. They will inform our bilateral diplomacy with President Karzai along with our allies. They are what Canada will focus on, and they connect all the activities of the various Canadian players in Afghanistan.

Second is that our programming, the money CIDA spends, the money Foreign Affairs spends--that's the largest part of the programming--is going to be and is being focused directly on those priorities. So programming won't be across a broad range; it will be really focused on achieving these results. As I said at the outset, the other part of that focus is to ensure that a larger part of the money we're spending is spent in Kandahar, where Canada has such a high degree of responsibility, where the Canadian Forces are deployed, and where we have a leadership role. Along with that we are establishing public benchmarks, which will be measures of progress to which we'll be held accountable and on which we'll report on a quarterly basis. That's new. While one or two other countries may have established benchmarks, I'm not aware of any that hold themselves publicly accountable, as we will be doing on a quarterly basis.

Finally, along with that, the other part of the mission transformation is the human transformation. In order to do what we want to do for these projects in Kandahar--the Dahla Dam, the construction of the schools, the polio campaign, and the other things we'll be doing there--we need even more civilians, and civilians at a more senior level than we already have. We already have some 24 civilians in Kandahar. We've put in place a new senior civilian who runs the show there. We'll be moving by the end of the year to having 70-plus civilians in Kandahar and at even more senior levels. This is a profound change in how we're doing things. The plan we establish for what we're doing in Kandahar will no longer be a military plan with governance and development aspects to it. It will be a whole-of-government plan that's supported by the military. This is a big change.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

You have about a minute left for question and answer.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm going to wrap two questions into one. There's obviously a battle for the hearts and minds of the Afghani people. We had understood from reading about the frequency of violence in other parts of Afghanistan, as well as in the Kandahar area, that the number of attacks over the last number of months had gone up compared to the same period in the previous year. Are we winning the battle of hearts and minds? Is the violence increasing, not just in our area but in other parts of Afghanistan, or is it on the decline?

[David Mulroney]

The report that was tabled yesterday I think tries to be as stark and honest as it can be in describing the security situation. Describing the security situation is a challenging task, because (a) we are trying to look at the country as a whole, and (b) the nature of the insurgency is changing. So what the report says essentially is that the security situation is difficult and may deteriorate further, because we face what they described as an asymmetric threat. That means that the Taliban learned, in the wake of Operation Medusa and other missions, not to confront ISAF forces, not to confront Canadian Forces directly, but to rely on terrorism, improvised explosive devices, and ambushes to really strike at the confidence levels and the ability of NGOs and others to operate. This is a serious threat and something that we take seriously, and of which we have to be conscious.

The other thing is that it's very difficult to find an appropriate measure for levels of security. You can count the number in incidents. I think people who count them in Kabul would say that the number of attacks has actually gone down if we compare year to year. However, the nature of the attacks, the attack at the Serena Hotel, and the attack at the parade were designed to really undermine international confidence in Afghanistan. So this is an insidious threat. It's a threat we take seriously, but it's also one that we and our allies feel we're developing capabilities to address.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

Thank you very much, Mr. Mulroney.

We'll now go to Madame Barbot for seven minutes.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, let me ask for clarification on one point. We were not told that we would have to work on this report. We received it yesterday afternoon. No one mentioned that it would be the topic for today's meeting.

Am I wrong?

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

Yesterday, Mr. Bachand attended our subcommittee meeting. We discussed Mr. David Mulroney's appearance before us. We also agreed that the cabinet report would be distributed immediately after question period and that if any party was not in favour of hearing a presentation this evening, that party should contact the clerk or myself before noon today. Hearing no objections, we decided to proceed.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

You mean this report?

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

Exactly.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

I was not aware of that. I would at least have appreciated all members of the committee being told that we were going to work on this report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

We discussed it at the subcommittee meeting.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Yes, I understand, but the other members of the committee were not necessarily informed. I was not, in any event.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

At the end of the subcommittee meeting, Mr. Hawn told everyone present to be sure to speak to their colleagues, since we had to know before noon today if we were going to have Mr. Mulroney at the meeting this evening. At the end of the meeting yesterday, I made a point of saying that this meeting would take place if no one spoke up.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

My apologies, I was not aware. So I will give my turn to the member who was present. He has some questions for you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Pierre Lemieux]

Fine. Thank you very much.

Mr. Bachand?

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, first of all, I would like to thank the staff and the people accompanying the members for leaving me nothing but tomatoes. I very much appreciate their concern for my diet. I would like to thank them sincerely for having left me nothing to eat. I would also like to thank Dawn Black for giving me half a hamburger so that I could make it to 8:30 p.m. alive.

[An Hon. Member]

You are eating your time now too.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Maybe I am, but I felt that it was important to make the point on behalf of the members.

Mr. Mulroney, I have looked at your report. It is a good one, in my opinion. You know, of course, that an important meeting is going to take place in Paris tomorrow.

Will you be there?