Evidence of meeting #15 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was detainees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
November 18th, 2009 / 4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I actually was a guard and also a physician in a jail, and I never saw anybody tortured in a Canadian jail, nor any allegations. But that's another matter.
Mr. Colvin, you are a credit to our foreign service. Thank you very much for being here and for your erudite testimony.
Ministers often come through Afghanistan. Did you have a chance to meet any ministers of the crown and actually express to them what you've expressed here?
4:50 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
No, I didn't. Yes, I've met several ministers, but I did not raise these issues with them.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Did you hear anybody else raising these issues to them, in your presence?
4:50 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
No, not in the meetings I was at.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
When the names were reduced from your list, from 75 to five, do you remember what those five names were?
4:50 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
Sure. I have them here.
Are you interested in hearing them?
4:50 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
There's the director at FTAG, the Afghanistan task force. There's David Mulroney, as deputy.
Do you want the names or just the position?
4:50 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
Yes.
There's the Afghanistan officer at PCO, and then two addresses at Kandahar airfield in the PRT.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Thank you.
Did you ask why this was done, why they were reduced?
4:50 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
Yes; it was very sensitive, and they didn't want it going to a wide circle of people.
Over time, I myself was removed from the distribution list for these messages.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
You mentioned also that the government lawyers had threatened you. Can you elaborate on that?
4:50 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
Oh. Well, this is, I guess, my interpretation.
I had been subpoenaed to the MPCC. When I first heard, the government's lawyers told me, “You're free to go for this pre-hearing interview. There's no problem. It's entirely up to you.” I had a July 28 letter saying that.
I said to them, “Fine, I'll go on September 1.” Three days later, they hit me with this section 38 thing. If I did go, I could be charged under section 38, and possibly jailed up to five years, for meeting the legal obligation to assist the MPCC.
I guess I interpreted that as a threat.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
Yes, I felt so.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
To go, you would be penalized. To not go, you would also be penalized.
4:55 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
Yes, that's correct.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Was this information expressed to the Minister of Defence at all in any of your memos or missives, that this is what had happened to you with respect to the untenable situation you were put in?
4:55 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
No. I've been writing to my deputy minister, Mr. Len Edwards, with some of my concerns about it, and to the Department of Justice. Mr. Préfontaine is the key person there.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rick Casson
Thank you, Keith.
Over to the government, and then we'll finish up with the NDP.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Colvin, you're an experienced diplomat. Experienced diplomats get to deal with difficult people all the time. So I'm a little concerned about why you wouldn't, regardless of personality clashes, have been more forceful with General Gauthier.
Also, if you had met a number of ministers at various times over there, why didn't you raise the issue with them? You said you didn't. Why not?
4:55 p.m.
First Secretary, Embassy of Canada to the United States of America
That's a good question. I didn't copy ministers typically on my reports, either.
Generally when the minister comes in, your job is to make sure they have a nice trip; it's a tough environment. I would go to meetings and write reports on the meetings, but I wouldn't really insert myself into their lives or their business. It would be a bit inappropriate, I think, to come and ruin a minister's visit by saying, “Hey, do you know people are getting tortured with electricity?”