Evidence of meeting #18 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was detainees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Thank you.
Mr. Colvin's report highlighted many other areas of the Afghan mission, including a lot of procedures regarding areas other than the transfer of detainees. In past testimony we heard about the C4 messages that Mr. Colvin was sending and the distribution line.
Mr. Colvin could have easily singled out something that was of major concern to him—for example, the detainees. I want to ask you, as the assistant deputy minister, did he at any time talk to you about it?
4:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
It's hard to say. Mr. Colvin was in a number of meetings where we were discussing what more we needed to do. He did raise his general concerns in those meetings. None of them were ever with respect to a specific allegation of torture that he would have seen first-hand or known first-hand, but he did have concerns, as did many people.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Right, the general part of it, but he never specifically raised with you torture concerns.
4:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No. It was general torture concerns, nothing that was specific or substantiated with respect to anyone named. It was the same sort of thing as one would see in the general human rights reports.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Ms. Swords, Kerry Buck, the spokesperson during the course of the Amnesty International thing, said her job was just to write and not to do anything else. Can you tell us, as a director, what is the chain of command that you personally would have followed when you received evidence or allegations of torture? What would you do? Is it just written down and forgotten, or was there a follow-up undertaken by the department?
4:50 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
If there was an allegation of torture, we immediately followed up. Indeed, we did after the articles in The Globe and Mail and the incident at the end of April.
It was raised at the highest levels with the Afghanistan government, at the political level with ministers and with the heads of the prisons. We notified the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission and the ICRC. We insisted that the Afghan government investigate and we offered assistance in any kind of investigation they would wish to do.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Mr. Proudfoot, in your former capacity, you were part of the distribution of C4s that were coming from Mr. Colvin. Were you on that distribution list?
4:50 p.m.
Director, Sudan Task Force, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes, I was copied on most of the C4s.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Is there anything you recall in the C4 reports by Mr. Colvin that would provide first-hand evidence of torture?
4:50 p.m.
Director, Sudan Task Force, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I believe the first report from Mr. Colvin suggesting that were claims of torture took place in June 2007.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
And subsequent to June 2007, at that given time, we had the enhanced agreement.
4:50 p.m.
Director, Sudan Task Force, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
And at the same time we were doing the visits. So those wire reports came in, and again we go back to the same question: was there any substantiated evidence found subsequent to your investigation or follow-up?
4:50 p.m.
Director, Sudan Task Force, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I left the Afghanistan task force in July 2007, so it's difficult for me to say what took place afterwards. But I can say that when we had information suggesting torture of Canadian transfer detainees in April and June 2007, we put in motion the diplomatic contingency plan I mentioned earlier: raising our concerns at senior levels in the Government of Afghanistan, being in touch with the ICRC and the AIHRC to bring the specific cases to their attention, asking them to follow up, and asking that the necessary steps be taken.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
I will split my time with Ms. Lalonde.
Getting back to you, Ms. Garwood-Filbert, were you called to testify before the military police complaints review commission?
4:50 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
My name was on the initial list, and then at some point in the process it was dropped.
4:50 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
Yes, sir.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Okay. You didn't drop yourself off the list. They said that you didn't have to come.
4:50 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Okay, so you didn't have any pressure from the government in not going.
4:50 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
No, sir.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Ms. Swords, I have here a document written by Mr. Colvin and Mrs. Bloodworth and approved by Ambassador Lalani, in which Mr. Colvin says:
He said that while being detained, he came and spoke with him once.
He, and others, told the”--we don't know what--“that three fellow detainees had had their “fingers cut and burned with a lighter” while in NDS detention.
When asked about his own treatment (blacked out) he said that he was hit on his feet with a cable or “big wire” and forced to stand for two days, but “that's all”. He showed us a mark on the back of his ankle, which he said was from the cable.
It goes on like this.
This document was copied to you, as well as to Mr. Mulroney, who did remember it very well.
Would you like to see the document or do you remember seeing it?
4:50 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I would like to see the document, because it's a large number.
Yes, I believe I've seen this document. It isn't addressed to me for action. I'm on the distribution list. I'm copied on it.
I believe this is from the early June period, and our mission in Kabul went into a prison in Kabul. When this report actually came in, I was at the G-8 meetings. The G-8 summit was going on at the time, and it was actioned by the Afghanistan task force.
