Evidence of meeting #18 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was detainees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Yes, madam. Let me ask you a question. Did you ask them how long ago they were mistreated or abused?
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
We would ask the facilities. Sometimes dates and times were very difficult to establish, so we would ask them. We would try to establish timeframes, but in that theatre and in that culture, it was hard for them sometimes to describe dates and times and places.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Thank you.
Ms. Swords, you also said that you would have these kinds of allegations investigated by the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission or others that report to them. Was there any instance where the Canadians who were actually on the scene pursued that investigation with the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission, were present with the commission? These allegations are serious. Did anyone ever check back and ask what the investigation was, who actually investigated the matter, who was spoken to, and what were the results?
5:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
One thing I can tell you is that the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission was expressly asked to notify us if they got information about mistreatment of a Canadian-transferred detainee. They didn't do that in the time I was working on the file, so we didn't have any information like that from them.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
And this is the time you were working on the file, because these e-mails are.... You're e-mailed on them.
5:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Well, up until around the end of May, when I went back to my G-8 responsibilities. I believe some of these started in June.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
December 2nd, 2009 / 5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you to our witnesses.
My questions revolve two around issues. One is the credibility of your testimony, and the other is the credibility of the claims of the opposition about political interference.
In the first issue, the credibility of your testimony, Ms. Garwood-Filbert, could you remind me again approximately how many interviews you conducted?
5:10 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
With detainees, I was present for 26 monitoring interviews, and I had over 33 visits to Sarposa. I spoke to prisoners on a regular basis. I spoke to prisoner advocates on a regular basis. So the interaction was constant.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you.
Again, in just 30 seconds because of our time constraint, can you remind us of your qualifications for the testimony? You've arrived at a conclusion. What are your qualifications to arrive at that conclusion?
5:10 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
I have 28 years' experience working in the federal correctional facility.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you.
It's interesting to note that the person who kicked this off originally, Mr. Colvin, does not have the years of experience that you have, nor the training, nor the background, and I think at best he conducted three interviews.
So we're talking about a group of credible people, along with Mr. Mulroney, along with the generals, highly qualified people who clearly understood your job. So you can tell which place I'm putting most of my weight.
With that, then, I ask the question. You were the people who were effectively on the leading edge of this entire issue. And this is very important: do you feel that at any point you ever received any direction from the political level that would have tried to influence you in the way you were conducting your job in your professional capacity?
5:10 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No. The only instructions we got were with respect to the policy to implement the December 2005 MOU and to make sure we abided by those two principles that I mentioned at the beginning of my statement.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Sudan Task Force, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
As Ms. Swords said, we had political direction to seek assurances of humane treatment, and it was in that context that we did additional work that culminated in the 2007 supplementary arrangement.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
All my reports went up the chain as I wrote them. They were directly taken from my field notes, and I was never asked to change any reports or limit any of my comments.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Mr. Chair, I just want to emphasize with the witnesses that we've got a large body of very qualified, very experienced, very capable people who clearly understand their job and all the implications of their job and the importance of Canada getting it right on the international stage. I'd ask Ms. Swords, as the senior person, for her assessment or her feeling of how seriously everybody over there took that responsibility of making sure Canada got it right, for all the reasons we would all support.
5:10 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Throughout my experience on this file, I think there has been a clear understanding of the obligations on the part of all Canadian officials and that we had to do everything we could to try to minimize any risks, that we had to develop a process—and it did evolve over time, as we ramped up our involvement in Afghanistan—to do everything we could to try to minimize risk to make sure we left Afghanistan in a better state than it was when we started.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
In the context of the mission and the obvious difficulties of dealing with a third world country like Afghanistan in the middle of a war, obviously there were some significant challenges for everybody, whether it's a soldier on the ground, the diplomat, the prison officials, or whoever. It's difficult for Canadians to understand and appreciate that context from several years and 12,000 kilometres away. Is that a fair statement?
5:10 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I think that's correct. I would also say that every time we identified an issue or a problem, we dealt with it as best we could.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
From what you've said, it sounds as if you dealt with things.... I can't recall the specific instance you were talking about, but ICRC notification issues and so on were dealt with within a matter of days, at most.
