Evidence of meeting #18 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was detainees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
The information is consistent--
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
--and it's consistent with the fact that it's speaking to allegations.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Thank you.
The other two, 1 and 2, essentially say you were consulted on them, and I can point to that, if you want. If you go to number 2 on the first page, it says you were consulted in the making of that report.
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
It's the same with document 1; I can show you.
You have looked at the allegations that are contained with respect to the three individuals. They sound like the allegations that were made to you when you attended.
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
Yes, sir.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
These were, yes, sir.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Thank you.
What period did they cover? Was it February to December? Can you tell?
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
I started with the detainee monitoring after the agreement, so our first visit would have been in June.
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
From June to December I was involved in sitting in on the detainee monitoring interviews.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Thank you.
Both of you have said these allegations are unsubstantiated, that you didn't see any body marks or anything. You know that when the prisoners are first transferred they go to the NDS and it's in the first few days and hours that they are tortured. Then they are transferred to places like Sarposa. Unless their limbs are cut off and they are really disfigured, you would not know a month, two months, or three months later that anybody had been tortured, would you, madam?
December 2nd, 2009 / 5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
The experience I had was that I had no significant signs of torture; I had allegations of abuse.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Absolutely, but you didn't know when they were tortured. Did you ask them how long ago they were tortured?
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
I didn't speak to torture specifically, because that's a leading question. We had a framework of asking questions with regard to treatment behaviour, human rights conditions, all those types of things. We took the information that was given to us, and any allegation that was made I reported upwards.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Madam, they said they were tortured. These are allegations of torture.
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
Sir, I can give you an example. We had a prisoner who said, “I was tortured”, and we said could you explain that word--because we're using an interpreter, we're speaking in Dari or Pashto--and he said, “Someone slapped me and called me a bad name.”
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
That doesn't mean that it took place. It's an allegation of something he felt had happened to him.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Would you agree that the allegations you reported in these three cases are more serious than simply slapping, and they would amount to abuse?
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Assessment and Intervention, Correctional Service Canada
Yes, but they're still allegations just the same, sir.