Afghanistan Committee on June 16th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to our twelfth meeting of the Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan, on Wednesday, June 16, 2010.

Before we go in camera, during which we will be discussing our draft report, we brought forward the suggestion at the last steering committee meeting on Monday that we would go to committee business at the beginning of the meeting today and deal with a number of motions.

I think we have two motions, perhaps one from Monsieur Bachand, and also some procedural motions from Mr. Hawn.

I don't have a copy of the first motion here in front of me, but it was a motion that we all agreed with in principle a month or two ago. It's Mr. Bachand's motion.

Monsieur Bachand had a motion that each one of these meetings be televised. We had an agreement on that, but it wasn't formalized in a vote. Can I just call the question on that? Is there any debate?

Mr. Bachand moves it. Are we all in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

All right. So that is carried.

Each one of you received a paper that just deals with some of the procedural moves. I would now entertain a motion from Mr. Hawn.

Go ahead, Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

It's pretty simple. As you said, we talked about it at the steering committee: I would seek unanimous consent to withdraw the motion of April 21, 2010.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

(Motion withdrawn)

That's carried.

Go ahead.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Secondly, the motion is: “That the Committee agreed to rescind the motion adopted on March 25, with respect to Canada's preparations and plans for the withdrawal of Canadian Forces from Afghanistan in 2011”. Obviously this is leading to the new motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. So Mr. Hawn is now rescinding that motion that we had an agreement on. It was amended initially and you see it as it was amended. All in favour?

Monsieur Bachand.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, I belive Mr. Hawn is withdrawing the motion he put forward on March 25. I think we agreed last time around that we would conduct two studies at the same time, that is, one on Afghan detainees and one on post-2011 plans.

Is that not what we discussed at the last meeting of the select committee?

[A voice]

That's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We're on number two.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Just to revoke the--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Yes. We agreed on that.

All right, I'm just trying to think.... We can't really disclose what was at the steering committee, because that was in camera, right?

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

It's covered in number three, isn't it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Yes, we're on three now. So this means in parallel; basically, what he is moving here is that we begin “to investigate and study Canada's preparation and plans” but it does not “disclude”, I guess, if that's the word...that's not the word...disinclude--

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Could I hear the wording of the motion on the detainees?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

The original motion that we just agreed to rescind was amended to say “...on condition that it first complete its study on the transfer of Afghan detainees...”. This next motion will say: “That the Committee begin without delay to investigate and study Canada's preparation and plans for the withdrawal of Canadian Forces from Afghanistan in 2011, and Canada's Whole of Government efforts and plans...post 2011”.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mrs. Carmen DePape]

You can do them parallel. The committee doesn't have to have just one study.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Yes. Again, Mr. Bachand, there can be two studies conducted at the same time, but with the original motion we wouldn't have been able to have two. So this is basically just saying that we will allow a study of the post-2011 mission in Afghanistan, but it does not say that we have concluded the other.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We can do both.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We can do both.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

We can go back and forth and do both.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Where does it say that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You don't have to, because that study has not been completed.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Because the other study is continuing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We have not filed a report. That study is ongoing, but this gives us the opportunity at steering committee to come back in the fall and begin on this next one, even though you don't want the other one to be concluded.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Can I ask for a five-minute break so I can see where we're going exactly?

[An hon. member]

Maybe a two-minute break?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Yes. We'll give you two.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Two minutes? Okay.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

You were at the subcommittee.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, I attended the committee meeting. As an MP, I feel it is my duty to speak up when I think something is missing or when there's an issue of some kind. Otherwise, all we do is simply vote down the motion. Therefore, I don't appreciate the parliamentary secretary's comments.

I'm here to do my job, and I would like to have two minutes to do just that as effectively as possible. Do I have your consent?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You have it.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You know what? Thank you, Mr. Bachand. I don't think it's part of what you were debating for, but I would also just.... Because this has been moved and I think this has been a misprint or whatever, I'm going to ask that we take out those two words “without delay”.

[An hon. member]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Are you all right with that, then, Monsieur Bachand?

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, I am.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Okay. So I'll just reread that: “That the Committee begin to investigate and study Canada's preparation and plans for the withdrawal of Canadian Forces from Afghanistan in 2011, and Canada's Whole of Government efforts and plans in Afghanistan post 2011”.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Chair, I don't think we have completed number two.

[An hon. member]

No, we haven't.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

We have to complete number two before we get to number three.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

But we're all right with where we're going on this, right?

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. So that will be amended.

Are we all in favour of number two?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. That's carried.

Number three—

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, maybe the clerk can help here. Are these actually in the form of motions that are being accepted? Because we just don't agree with number two. There would have to be a motion to rescind the previous motion, I assume. Because all we're dealing with is suggestions here, according to the documents--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Well, Mr. Hawn moved that take place--

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Oh, it was moved. Good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

--and Mr. Wilfert seconded it.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

And we had a seconder, too. Okay. Good. So we're dealing with a motion. Fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. All in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

So we're carried.

Now, Mr. Hawn, number three.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I would move: “That the Committee begin to investigate and study Canada's preparation and plans for the withdrawal of Canadian Forces from Afghanistan in 2011, and Canada's Whole of Government efforts and plans in Afghanistan, post 2011”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Is there any debate on that? Are we all in favour?

Mr. Obhrai.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

So this motion, when we start this thing and start calling witnesses and all that kind of stuff....?

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Well, we're going to do it in parallel. I mean, we've already started this, right?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I think because of our trip we've already kind of begun. The initiative has started. So that's exactly the plan.

All right. All in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

That's carried.

We will now suspend for a couple of minutes and then we will move in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]