Evidence of meeting #2 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was documents.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I too want to thank Mr. Dosanjh for inadvertently supporting our opinion.
We really might as well call the question. We are in fundamental disagreement here, and that's not surprising. The amendment will gut the effect of the motion. However, that's the direction we're heading, so I suggest we just call the question.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
All right, are we ready for the question on the amendment to the motion?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
The amendment would be that the committee investigate and study Canada's preparations and plans for the withdrawal of Canadian Forces from Afghanistan in 2011 and Canada's whole-of-government efforts and plans in Afghanistan post-2011, in light of the fact that the end of Canada's combat mission in Afghanistan is quickly approaching in 2011 and that the committee was constituted to specifically study the mission's purpose and changing nature in a whole-of-government context; and that the policy relevance and importance of these plans are clearly of immediate concern and primary importance.
March 17th, 2010 / 4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
I read the motion as amended.
The amendment is that we take out “begin without delay to”.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
On the condition that we complete the detainee study issue first.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I don't think any of us want to carry on this debate further, except that we have not had a debate on this amendment. The amendment, as I understood it, was the exclusion of “begin without delay to”. I apologize, because Mr. Wilfert is an honourable gentleman and I'm sure that he wouldn't tell us that he had said something when he didn't. I just don't recall that. I'm sorry.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
In fact, to be quite honest, initially, Mr. Wilfert, I never did get that you were moving an amendment--
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
--because you didn't. So I'm going to read this again, and I'm going to open it up again if you want to debate this, because it's more than just to remove the words “begin without delay to”, which was spoken of at quite some length.
It has been moved by Mr. Wilfert that the motion be amended by replacing the words “begin without delay to” with the words “on condition that the committee first complete its study on the transfer of Afghan detainees”.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
“On condition that the committee first complete its study of the transfer of Afghan detainees, that the committee investigate and study Canada's....”
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
It's on the condition...that the committee investigate, okay. It comes first.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Well, Mr. Chairman, I would have been inclined to vote in favour of our motion as amended with the exclusion of “begin without delay to” until.... We recognize that it gutted it, but it still had a tiny, tiny bit of the original meaning of the motion.
Mr. Wilfert's amendment, as we understand it, will not only close the door but he's going to take hammer and nail and screws to make sure it will simply not open. This is not acceptable. He is basically saying that everything is going to be focused securely and exclusively on the issue of the detainees.
Can Mr. Wilfert imagine a situation where we have—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Excuse me.
Mr. Wilfert, I wonder if you can imagine a situation where during the course of time, however long we have this detainee issue on the table, that there would be a responsible, reasonable period when we could be looking at the content of this motion, deal with some or all of it during that period, and then come back to the detainee question.
Sir, you have basically co-opted this committee into the inquisition relative to the question of whether or not there is a torture issue that has to be taken into consideration. With due respect, and perhaps with all the best intentions, with this motion as amended you have basically moved this from the flexibility we require as a committee to a country mile away from the original intent of the Afghan committee.
With respect, I would suggest that you might want to withdraw the latter portion of your amendment, in which case we can gather at least a small crumb of cooperation among the various members of this committee. The government members are acquiescing that we do not have the numbers on this committee, as constituted, to stop this motion, but at least we would have a small piece of common ground to move forward with this as and when we have the opportunity.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Mr. Chairman, my understanding of what the government was proposing was that they simply wanted to go immediately to study--because it says “without delay”--this particular report.
If in fact the government is suggesting something else, which is that if we were to go to Afghanistan they're looking for one meeting to look at this, I would suggest that we go back in camera to have a discussion.
There seem to be two different things here. On the one hand, Mr. Abbott, I'm not trying to nail anything; I want to make sure that we deal with the detainee issue. But if at some point this committee were to travel to Afghanistan, which again is part of the mandate from the House of Commons, March 2008, and you want to have a meeting to discuss these items—
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
—that would be different. That's why I would suggest we'd have to go in camera.
