Afghanistan Committee on Feb. 8th, 2011

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

I would be very interested in that.

My other question is about the situation of women. You talked about progress in the area of education. The figures you cited are impressive. I do think that if we can change the situation of women in Afghanistan by better education for women themselves, that is a fundamental factor.

How can CIDA get involved? You said that the situation of women was still precarious. What resources need to be mobilized, with the exception of education, to achieve concrete results in terms of promoting the status of women in Afghanistan?

[Françoise Ducros]

In fact, by focusing on education and health, we are taking specific measures in those areas. In terms of our other initiatives, there are ways to target humanitarian assistance so that it encourages participation by women. There is the whole area of governance and capacity development. We try to make sure that government policies take those needs into account.

In terms of what we have done to date, there was a lot of training in democratic development, including training for women parliamentarians and candidates. And 70% of the candidates in the last provincial elections were trained through Canadian initiatives. In fact, our projects relating to human rights development will focus mainly on women. All the work that will be done with the human rights commissions will address those issues comprehensively.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

In terms of the overall situation, there is also a very important political factor. We can imagine that two kinds of developments could cause setbacks in the situation of women. In particular, there is greater control on the ground by the Taliban themselves. Do you feel that? Is the effect it is having to raise fears about the situation of women? The other kind of development is the desire of the Karzai government to negotiate, to some extent, with the Taliban, and try to find some common ground with them. There again, it may well be that women would be sacrificed in those kinds of negotiations. Do you feel that on the ground?

[Françoise Ducros]

In terms of the negotiations and reintegration, the Government of Canada and its allies have spoken to the fact that our approach had to take into account the impact on women. In fact, the work done by the Government of Canada through the Department of Foreign Affairs and CIDA at the human rights commission has taken this issue into account.

In terms of what I feel, it would be a little pretentious on my part to say that I feel something when it comes to the Taliban. However, in all the discussions about policy development within the departments, we stress that this question and these issues have to be taken into account.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Physically, there are effects. When the Taliban take control of an area, some projects can't be continued. Is that the case? Do you feel the Taliban are gaining ground?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We'll have to wrap it up there quickly.

[Françoise Ducros]

I can't speak to that question. I have the same reports as you have.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Ducros.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you.

Mr. Hawn, please.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Madame Ducros, I'll just go back to something that was mentioned earlier. Just because the military mission is changing, CIDA's mission fundamentally doesn't change. I mean, the location may change and the dollars may change, but fundamentally the mission is the same.

You'll be centred in Kabul. You still plan to get out and about in the countryside to the projects and so on. How do you see the degree of difficulty with that--or do you see it changing at all--with the Canadian military now back in a training role and relying on other people for security? Do you have any concerns?

[Françoise Ducros]

CIDA will continue to work the way it works in other areas of similar difficulty: through trusted partners in certain instances, and in certain instances our partners will need to get security arrangements. The Kandahar situation was a very particular situation, and there are other conflict-ridden situations, but we've certainly done it.

Is there a degree of difficulty? It's difficult to work in those areas, but do we do it elsewhere, such as in Sudan and in other failed conflict-affected states? Yes. So we will have to take into account how we do that work. We will have to continue to implement those training measures we have, whereby we provide hazardous environment training to our people and train them for situations, and we will work through other security measures. I'm confident that we will continue to work in those areas.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you.

I'd like to explore literacy a little more. How are we defining literacy in the Afghan context? Is it the three Rs? Is it more the practical literacy? How do you measure that and how do you test it?

[Françoise Ducros]

I have the literacy expert with me, so on this one, with the chairman's okay, I'd like to turn it over to Mr. Melanson.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Go ahead.

[James Melanson, Director General, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency]

We have various approaches to literacy.

Ms. Ducros mentioned community-based education. That's in the less formal part of the education system that draws in girls especially--eventually to the formal education system.

There is of course the formal education system as well.

Then we have literacy training for adults, which is a program that we've sponsored for some time. It involves the World Food Programme and UNICEF. Adults in food-insecure areas have an opportunity to come forward. They get a food ration to offset the opportunity cost to their time, because these are poor people. They have a nine-month program that allows them to attain some level of functional literacy, which they are assessed on at the end of that program.

Those are the three planks to improving literacy.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

So a lot of it is not, like I said, the three Rs. It's practical literacy, if that's what you can call it.

[James Melanson]

That's right. Especially for adults, it is.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

How about sustaining that literacy? Obviously we want to increase the literacy rate in terms of the number of people we consider literate. What's your view of how we or they will be able to sustain that literacy so that people who we determine are literate today will still be literate in 20 years?

[James Melanson]

That's a challenging question. The 20-year question is about youth, primarily, and I think that revolves around the quality of education they're getting. Our focus is on teachers and improving the capacity of teachers. You've seen some of the articulation of our teacher-training mission there, not only in the formal system, but in these community-based education venues where you can really reach a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't be reached.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

This probably will go back to Madame Ducros. To me, and I think to those of us who have been there and observed, confidence is a major factor in allowing the Afghans to move forward--the Afghans having the confidence that they can actually do this. The average life expectancy is 43 years and they've been doing this for 33 years, so most people know nothing but what this is. How do you view our ability to help them build up that confidence that gives them the hope they can move forward to do this themselves?

[Françoise Ducros]

Well, that's a very subjective question. My very subjective answer is that the more we work on local ownership and on working hand in hand and ensuring--as was commented--that it isn't us doing it, but that they're building it up, the more we'll see that confidence.

My very subjective answer, though, is that at multiple round tables, when I've met with civil society, the Ministry of Education, the director of education in Kandahar who's had death threats and has continued to do it, and the ACCC and people who are providing vocational training, this confidence is building. The issue is that this is a long-term project and that there are going to be multiple donors, of which we are one, and we have to be committed on the development side for the long term.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have a fairly specific question. It's short.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Last one.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

You talked about 1,450 health care workers being trained by Canada. Do you have any idea of how many have been trained overall in the country?

[Françoise Ducros]

I could find that quickly. It's in the quarterly report. We can get it to you before we leave today. It's thousands.