Evidence of meeting #3 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Since this law was passed by two-thirds of the members of the Afghan parliament, if it were to remain unchanged, what would be the response of our government to that situation, given this violation?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Would aid or any other element be put on the table, as well?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC
We continue to make those representations. The question you pose started with a hypothesis, and we are continuing, as I mentioned in my response, to make the proper representations to the Afghan government.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
It is five minutes, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, through you, I would like to first thank the minister for being here.
From the outset, I would like to point out that Canada has invested a lot and that Canadian men and women who have participated in the mission have worked extremely hard. However, we have lost 140 people. Given how much this mission is costing the country, this is a disappointing performance record. You said that security is not stable. You said that there is growing instability because of the Afghan insurrection, because of a weakening of the economy and persistent problems related to governance. You said that there was nevertheless a tangible improvement in the daily lives of Afghans, but you went on to say that there is a constant threat of explosive devices, among other things, which is creating more and more innocent victims among Afghan civilians. You also said that there was a massive intimidation campaign underway and spoke of the fact that the efforts of the international community are being undermined. This situation is extremely disappointing and leads us to ask many questions.
Further, we have met with many people. One of the problems raised by members of NGOs who have been in Afghanistan for a while is that Afghans are not sure about the quality of the health they are receiving. They said that the roads that have been built are not solid and that bridges have crumbled. I am simply repeating what I heard. We were told that these situations should not happen.
You did not really address the consequences of the election. The least one could say is that it did not provide conclusive results for President Karzai. You also talked about the fight against drugs, but the poppy culture has not been eradicated. On top of all of that, there is the issue regarding the torture of detainees.
What measures does this government, and this cabinet, intend to take by 2011 to improve the situation?
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC
Thank you, Ms. Lalonde. That was a very wide-ranging question.
I will not try to tell you that everything is for the best in the best of all possible worlds in Afghanistan. However, to the contrary, I believe that presenting you with a quarterly report, as we are doing, certainly points to progress in some sectors, such as education, the building of schools and progress with regard to security forces. Indeed, progress has been made, but we cannot forget that we are operating in a conflict zone and that progress is difficult. Nevertheless, progress has been made.
I would like to remind you that the Canadian Parliament has supported the objectives which are known to everyone and which are contained in the report. Every time my predecessors or myself have appeared before the committee, we have reported on progress based on a certain number of criteria. However, far be it from me, Ms. Lalonde, to claim that we have made extraordinary progress. We are moving forward in a difficult context, but we are moving forward nevertheless, and we ultimately hope that we will reach our final objective, which is to ensure that the Afghan government does well by its citizens. Everything we do is to reach that goal.
4 p.m.
Bloc
4 p.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC
Yes, I do. As a member of the international community, I strongly believe in this objective. I believe in it, my allies believe in it, as do the people we are collaborating with. For instance, every time a woman goes to school, this is progress. Every time we find a stable job for someone, this is progress. Every time we train someone to take on an important responsibility within government, this is progress.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
However, you realize that women are increasingly afraid of appearing in public without wearing a burqa. I will conclude with that fact.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
You talk about progress, Mr. Minister, but according to the document I have read, it seems that the opposite has occurred. That is the problem, we do not agree on what progress is versus setbacks. Let me give you some examples.
In the document, it says: “ [...] neither the brigade headquarters nor any of the kandaks had an effective strength of 70% or higher this quarter.” This is on page 12. Therefore, that is a setback.
Next, the percentage of operations carried out by the Afghan army decreased. It stands at 58%, whereas during the previous quarter, it was 80%. As well, based on the progress indicator, while the majority of Kandaharis feel that security has improved, they believe that security has not improved in the six key districts. That is a setback.
As far as the Afghan National Police is concerned, no infrastructure project was completed during this quarter, whereas many had been completed previously. Those are setbacks.
Regarding the percentage of Kandaharis who perceive an improvement in dependable delivery of services, no data was collected. However, a little further, it says that 52% of Kandaharis are satisfied with the provision of education, but previously, that figure stood at 60%. Therefore, it is a setback of 8%.
As far as polio is concerned, 16 new cases were declared, whereas before there were only 9. That is also a setback.
As for health care staff, 87 people were trained last year. During the last quarter of last year, 47 people were trained. That is another setback.
There are all kinds of numbers like this, and I could go on. In my opinion, we have failed. If I had to award a mark to this report, it would not pass, unfortunately. So will you be working harder during the next quarter so that we can give the next report a passing grade of 60%?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC
Mr. Bachand, allow me to give you a different point of view.
When the literacy programs ended during this quarter, 23,500 had received training. Over 220,000 people received training on the risks associated with mines. These are important things because people could step on a mine at any time.
Another kandak was evaluated as being perfectly able to plan, execute and maintain operations on a nearly independent basis. Over 75 additional police officers were trained, which brings the total to 2,105.
The Dahla dam project created 50 new jobs, and 405 people worked on the site. Regarding another major project, two new schools were built, as I mentioned, bringing the total to 14 schools.
Further, 197 teachers were trained, bringing their number to 341. Over 95% of children targeted by vaccination campaigns against polio received vaccinations during that quarter. Thanks to Canadian aid, over 95,500 tons of food were made available through the world food program.
It is not easy to measure progress in a context of conflict. You know as well as I do that the ability to make progress and to report on progress is compromised by security problems.
It is not always easy to notice or measure progress on a quarterly basis, but look at the trend. I think we can be happy with the work which our military, our civilians, our men and women, have accomplished since the beginning of this conflict. Progress has been made, and more particularly since we implemented quantifiable and measurable objectives.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister, for giving us the progress report as to what Canada has been doing, the achievements Canada has made, and the challenges Canada has.
Mr. Minister, one of the main things the opposition has been trying to do is to find there was torture there and that our soldiers were somehow considering that. They forget that the transfer agreement was made during their regime and that we improved on that. They don't seem to go to the fact of how much money we have put in the present system to stop that, to teach the Afghan justice system, the Afghan prisoners.
To give you an idea of how this information is twisted by the opposition.... Mr. Minister, last term you said that since signing this agreement there have been over 200 visits by Canadian officials to the prison system. Yet Mr. Dosanjh tried to twist that fact to say that it wasn't 200 visits, it was 200 prisoners.
Can you clarify that situation so Mr. Dosanjh can know very clearly that there were over 200 visits to check on the prisoners to see that torture was not being done and that we were complying with our international rules?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
An hon. member
It's Mr. Obhrai.
4:10 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
All right, I'm sure that was Mr. Obhrai. I am also very sure that our minister will answer.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC
I'll be very pleased, Chair, to respond to both of them.
I think the 2007 improved agreement that the government negotiated grants us full and unrestricted access, as I was mentioning to Mr. Rae earlier, to the prison facilities where detainees transferred by the Canadian Forces are held. There have been over 210 visits by Canadian officials to Afghan detention facilities since the transfer agreement was signed. I asked my officials to look at that and find out when the most recent unannounced visit had been held, and I was told that it had been done within the last 15 days. We continue to go there on a regular basis since the government negotiated the agreement.
I point out as well, colleagues, that this arrangement, because it is robust, also ensures that the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission has the same unrestricted access, as they have an important monitoring role, as you know, as well as an investigation role to play. So while we coordinate closely with our allies, each country's approach to detainee monitoring or prisoner monitoring, including frequency, is specific to its own bilateral arrangements with the Government of Afghanistan.