In my personal experience, you need to separate the Ministry of Justice and NDS into two distinct groups. At Sarposa Prison we've had an opportunity to work quite closely with their officials, especially following the prison break. We initiated a number of different programs alongside them. We have Correctional Services Canada officials who mentor them, who are on the ground, spending day after day with them, trying to bring them up to a standard. We don't enjoy that same type of relationship with the NDS whatsoever.
So the difficulty I had as a political director of the PRT was having even a supplemental arrangement and a transfer arrangement, on one hand, that led us to have no other partner, other than the NDS, for at least the initial transfer stage, but on the other hand, lacking a lot of confidence in their officials' ability to play a role that was up to the standard that we expect. There are examples of where we would be frustrated at the PRT in terms of our relationship with the NDS.